The entity, responsible for the mammon machine, and the black omen!?

[Zergplex]

Did they say how the Reptites Got Terra Tower to float?

I assumed it was the power of the Dragon God, floating an island was pretty easily within his realm of power.

[placidchap]

Utilities and experiments, I suppose.

In that case one would have to explain what enormous ancient power source they used to keep Zeal afloat if not for the Sun Stone?

Does it have to be enormous?  We are thinking in terms of power sources that we know of...wind, hydro, sun, petrol, etc.  and their energy output.  When we think of a floating continent, we think that it just has to be some enormous power source, when it could be that the people of Zeal figured out a way to alter the gravitational constant for specific pieces of mass or they used their understanding of the forces of nature (what was called magic) and altered them to suit their needs...all I am saying is that it doesn't need to be an enormous power source for it to float...although relative to the power sources we know of, it could be considered "enormous", but not in an absolute sense...

Does anyone in Zeal refer to magic as magic?  Or was it coined from Spekkio and/or Gaspar?

[idioticidioms]

It's a very basic story: Rulers of a land find access to power (the Sunstone, red rock) and they use it to bring peace and serenity to their kingdom (in this case, they even make it float), through this power comes great technology and through this technology comes information of a new power source, seemingly better. They find a way to harness this power source (Mammon Machine) and it turns lover against lover (Zeal and her husband). Zeal thirst for the power of Lavos, her husband tries to save her from herself and is squashed in the process. Hell, she could have even found a way to talk to Lavos, who knows. Perhaps she got the notion for Immortality in her head all on her own. For whatever reason, she got it. She didn't intend to share it, but knew that she had to promise immortality to her subjects for them to help her obtain her goal. When the Ocean Palace is finally constructed (so Zeal could get closer to the source of Lavos) She uses Schala and the Mammon Machine to waken Lavos and get his attention. At this moment, Lavos senses Zeals thoughts, probably decides then and there to take her under his wing because they can further each others aims (i.e. Lavos gives Zeal immortality and power and a new floating palace and Zeal help Lavos obtain energy faster than he's transferring it to her). Whatever the case, The Ocean Palace becomes the Black Omen when it rises into the sky with Lavos' power. before that happens though, I'm sure he sensed the animousity coming from those in his vicinity: Crono and Crew, Magus/Janus, and the Guru's. Seeing the Guru's as little more than an annoyance, he splits them up and sends them through time, along with the unintended Janus child. After this, he decides that a show of power is in order for Crono & crew and subjects them to an unwinnable battle, whereupon Magus attacks and is met with much the same fate.

I think that at this time, Crono was about to unleash a power that would completely decimate Lavos' Shell. A last-ditch effort of some sort. Sensing this danger, Lavos unleashed a highly focused energy shot which should have killed him, but didn't due to the interference from Crew at the top of Death Peak in 2300 AD. Now, after having thought he set THE example for them and wouldn't be bugged again, imagine his surprise to find them aboard the Black Omen when Zeal calls upon him, and to find that they bested Zeal, to whom he gave untold power to. bit of a shocker, if you ask me. But, Lavos probably figures, OK, I took care of this once, and I'll do it again. Zeal has outlived her usefulness at this point and The Black Omen is destroyed in that instant, and Crono and Crew are once again brought before Lavos' Shell to be dealt with, but he got more than expected. He got beaten.

You can't beat The Black Omen in 2300 AD. You fight the defense lasers and then Zeal comes and tells you that it is simply too late, but if you go to 1000 AD and fight it, the defense lasers are already taken care of, and if you beat it there, the Black Omen itself is still in the other area's, but I think all the treasures aren't there anymore, and I know it's just a skeleton crew of monsters on board. Whether this is because Zeal and Lavos transcend time altogether, which is believable, except for the fact there is no Black Omen in prehistoric times and the fact that it would make Lavos Immortal himself, and thus unnecessary for him to collect the Life energy of the planet. as for that matter, I dont think Zeal was immortal either. Granted a life as long as Lavos' or pretty close to it as long as she served him, but it could be taken away at his choosing, but not immortal. I think, in this last part, it was a ploy used by the developers of the game to conserve space on the game by making The Black Omen the same for all time periods it was in, except for when it was destroyed, giving you the option to destroy it in 1000 AD, 600 AD, and 12,000 BC. And except for the obvious exception of it being too late in 2300 AD. Though, I think that if you beat it in 12,000 BC first, it disappears from all other time periods, thus disproving the transcending time theory.

As for Terra Tower it could be that the Dragon God willed it to float, or it could be that the reptites had technology of their own, which is shown in Ayla's time period in CT with the T-Rex Azala constructed, and their fortress. That and Azala, while not knowing exactly what the Gate Key was, did know that it was highly technologically advanced, which is more than could be said for the poor primates, who probably would have confused it for a flower. And probably ate it. and Died. No, the reptites had technology of their own, too. If left to advance it, instead of being destroyed by Lavos, they could very possibly have created a floating fortress. it isn't beyond reason.

Placidchap: good question. the term magic WAS used in Zeal, but rarely. They referred to it more as an aura, but the term magic was not unknown to them. Aura being the more refined word for it, and magic being the more base word for it, not to be used among nobles, you know?

[Bigvinu]

It could be likely that Lavos (who crosses Time) could have foreseen the efforts of the heroes to repel him and may have used the Black Omen as a last ditch effort to deter them.

[ryu planeswalker]

That is unlikely, Lavos seems to be a non-sentient being.

[idioticidioms]

Don't confuse sentience with long-lived. If you lived long enough to last from 65 million BC to 2300 AD, would you pay attention to everything going on around you in the world? Would the passing of one or two mortal generations enought o grab your attention? No. I believe Lavos to be a sentient being, somewhat intelligent, though they definitely don't show it, because he's an alien, and views all life forms to be below him because he feeds off of them. A sentient being is a being who has the ability to form conscious thought and Lavos is definitely able to form conscious thoughts, otherwise he would not be able to fight you very well and just be lashing out. The spells he uses against you show conscious thought, and thus sentience.

[ryu planeswalker]

Don't confuse sentience with long-lived. If you lived long enough to last from 65 million BC to 2300 AD, would you pay attention to everything going on around you in the world?

If I were Collecting DNA to absorb yes, I would monitor every little germ that comes into existance for traits I might want So an anomaly like the same few strains of DNA showing up during major world events would atleast warrent a major reaction.

[idioticidioms]

Again, you're thinking in small terms. Lavos' power is enough to conquer worlds, do you think his DNA intake would require constant supervision? He is not omniscient nor is he omnipotent. I don't think he pays much attention at all to what DNA he intakes, because the end result to him is still the same. He has no reason to, for one. For two, imagine paying attention to the whole world at the same time. Everyone talking and moving. Now take that and multiply it by 1000. You now get a very small grasp on what it's like to hear the thoughts of the whole world, while they're talking and moving around and experiencing life. Paying attention to every strand of DNA is about the same. There are just too many for him to pay attention to each one. I'm pretty sure that the only time Lavos DID notice that the DNA was the same for Crono and Crew were right when they were aboard the Black Omen, and he did make his move at that time. Otherwise I think he thought it below his notice. not important enough to look for. Lavos is a very cocky being, remember, he comes from a place far away, from a parent exactly like him. Destroying planets is all he knows and he has never before known defeat or fear. Why would he worry about it?

You're dealing with your limited experience as a human being and comparing it to near-godhood. What you would do in a situation is not necessarily what anybody else, especially Lavos, would do in the exact same situation. The personality of Lavos is a complex one because we don't get to see how he thinks, only how he reacts. so it's really hard to ascertain exactly what flowed through his brain during his millenia long slumber. You could be right, however, I don't think that was the case, otherwise, Lavos would have just squashed Crono and Crew while they were babies and have been done with it.

[ryu planeswalker]

Again, you're thinking in small terms. Lavos' power is enough to conquer worlds, do you think his DNA intake would require constant supervision? He is not omniscient nor is he omnipotent. I don't think he pays much attention at all to what DNA he intakes, because the end result to him is still the same. He has no reason to, for one.

Except that it does have a reason to go over the DNA of the entire planet, It exists to Get the DNA it wants to pass on to the next Lavos Spawns, and not going over every little bit of Info it can so that it doesn't miss a mutation that could be favorable for its race.

[idioticidioms]

I think it just collects every strand of DNA and gives it all to the Lavos Spawn. I don't think he's real picky. Could be wrong, though.

[Eske]

I disagree, being picky would be the point.  Lavos needs to "help" or allow the survival/prosperity of strong creatures on the planet he occupies so that he can evolve into the ultimate being.  I assume that he either has a limited lifespan and gives birth right before death with whatever DNA he has processed or somehow knows when no more evolutionary progress will be made and chooses to give birth at that time.

Either is possible really.  In 1999AD, we see people living in comfortable domes.  Though once changed by their environment for millions of years, they now change the environment to suit their needs - perhaps stagnating their evolution.

who knows.

But he certainly does not just "collect it all and pass it on", looking at some party members comments on his final form (Robo claims Lavos was trying to produce the ultimate lifeform - he can't do that by simply collecting all known DNA, he has to constantly re-engineer himself to be on the evolutionary edge.)

[ryu planeswalker]

That doesn't make alot of sense though, With the amount of DNA that is collectible on the planet Lavos could easily had enough to Pass on to the next Spawn especially with the amount of Different Insect Species there are at any one time period, so there was no real reason for him It to be around for 65Million years, considering that the spawns would take an unreasonable amount of time to get to another inhabited planet if they travel at a consistent speed through the universe.((is there any estimate at how fast it was traveling when it landed in 65Million BC?))

My Theory is that Lavos was/Is a Bio computer gone very wrong, It has the basic Programming to collect/Scan DNA to use to pass onto the next Lavos, mostly looking for traits that the current Lavos doesn't have, and when Evolution Stagnated Long enough ((Such as in  1999AD, humans hadn't really evolved in a significant way since 12,000)) it would wipe the genetic template clean, Create new Lavos Spawns, and Die, then in Millions or Billions of years when the Events of 1999 have healed up, whatever Bacteria survived the uninhabitable points would begin to evolve again, until another Lavos Lands, gets a trait it wants and Wipes everything clean again.

Eske beat me too it.

[idioticidioms]

Or, he could die upon giving birth to spawn, through complete energy expenditure, or through the Spawn destroying the father to gain life, much in the case of the black widow spider. Really not enough info to go off of. And, to be honest, he could be picky about the DNA, as you say, humans don't really evolve too much, in which case, he wouldn't be looking at their DNA, but the DNA of Bosses, which would also explain why he does the phase shift when you choose to fight him through the bucket at The End of Time. In which case, he probably wouldn't be paying attention to any DNA but that, and it would take the amount of time it did to collect all that data.

[ryu planeswalker]

We are a bit off topic for this, gonna quote your post and make a new thread.