Marle Paradox: Let's change our point of view

[Eske]

How about the Guardia Paradox? Or is it too much?

]

What is the Guardia Paradox?

[Acacia Sgt]

The one where it says why there is still a Guardia Royal Family if Ayla traveled to the future. Then add the same except replace them with Doan and Marle respectively. And don't forget King Guardia XXI in the ending.

[chrono eric]

Haha well, I never really considered the Guardia paradox to be much of a paradox, at least not in the way that the "Marle paradox" was considered to be.

What I mean by this is, Ayla is supposed to be the ancestor of Marle (we'll address Doan in a second). Now, the Chrono series has never exactly held true to conventional science, but logically speaking - if you had an ancestor that existed millions of years ago, but you built a time machine and removed that person from the time line, would you effectively cease to exist in the new timeline? I think that this is an unlikely scenario, because a given individual is composed of genes that are shared with people in their immediate family and (in the past) their immediate tribal population. Furthermore, the more distant an ancestor is in the past, the less they actually contribute to a far future descendents genetic makeup. So if Ayla never existed to be the ancestor of Marle, it's possible that Marle and the Guardia royal line would still exist anyways. She might be a slightly different Marle, but Marle nonetheless.

As for Doan's case, 1,300 years may be a short enough time to have a dramatic effect on his existence by removing Marle from the timeline. Especially because she seemed to be the sole heir to the Guardia royal throne.

But for these paradoxes, you don't find out about the Ayla-Marle-Doan connection until the ending of the game, and it may have just been thrown in there as a developer oversight without them thinking about the complications that arose. So I don't think there's much we can really debate there unless Eske has a different opinion.


EDIT: Alright, I've got something we can discuss and settle once and for all - the formation of the Dead Sea. Why did it happen? Why is it "frozen" in time? I think that with what me and Eske and everyone has been discussing in these recent threads about strange ways that Time Bastard could work in the Marle Paradox, and with the abnormal ways that TTI and TB work in the split timeline, that we could shed some real light on this. Indeed, the question of "Why did it happen?" has already been pretty much answered by us in the other thread. I have an idea that combined with some things we have come up with in this thread could make it even clearer.

I'll start another thread though, so if people still want to discuss the Marle paradox here they can.

EDIT #2: Shit, this is an enormous amount of information. This will take me about a day to organize into a post. Bear with me. My basic idea is this: Eske and I have shown that the existence of the Dead Sea is actually predicted by the way that TTI behaves after a dimensional split. We have also shown that re-unifying the dimensions restores the ruined future. The Compendium holds to the idea that a future is not actualized until it happens. ie: Potentiality does not exist in the Chronoverse. This ignores the Marle Paradox, and as we have shown here a potential event could very well alter the future (and Marle's existence) before Queen Leene's death actually happens.

Therefore, taking another look at the Dead Sea with these ideas in mind: We show why it forms using our new principles of time and dimensional travel, we show why the future is saved by unifying the dimensions, and we show that the mere possibility that the future will be destroyed because of Serge is enough to bring the Dead Sea into existence. This will take a long time to organize as it draws together ideas from many different threads.

[Eske]

The one where it says why there is still a Guardia Royal Family if Ayla traveled to the future. Then add the same except replace them with Doan and Marle respectively. And don't forget King Guardia XXI in the ending.

Well, it's late but ill give it a shot.

Recall that while Marle was in the past, Crono and Lucca experienced zero change.  The timeline did not reset. 

By conventional models here,  when Ayla leaves the past bound for the future, she should land in a timeline where she never returned, and never had children - thus no Guardia.    That doesn't happen.   This view of time travel, even though it makes sense to us, doesn't represent how time travel works in CT and should be abandoned.

As the Leene example shows, rather than Marle's arrival in 600AD or Leene's death,  time chose a seemingly arbitrary point to delete Marle.  So time works in mysterious ways in Chrono Trigger....

^^ This is me brainstorming,  now back to Ayla:

First, lets play a little perspective game:

Crono and Marle are in 1000AD.  Crono needs to run to 2300AD and get a package.  He promises her that he will be back in 10 minutes.
Now, in this example, you are Marle (lol).    You wait by the gate and sure enough, Crono emerges 10 minutes after he left.

Did Crono keep his promise?

Obvious answer is yes.... but wait - for that 10 minutes, was Crono in a 2300AD where he NEVER returned and Marle lived out her life alone?  Remember that we see Crono and Lucca come from the future to the past in 600AD - with no intermediate timeline.   So the "lonely Marle" should never exist.  You, as Marle, did not wait for more than 10 minutes. There is no intermediate timeline so "lonely Marle" was not sent to the DBT.  So what happened?  What would Crono read in a history book in 2300AD?

The answer, I believe, is that Crono lands in a possible future, rather than the "future" itself. This future is based upon the sum of the events in the past and means nothing if Crono chooses to time travel again.  Even if our Marle never experiences a life-long wait - there is no predestiny in Chrono Trigger (it's a central theme), so Crono wouldn't read something about himself going into the past before he "did it".  He would read that Marle waited her whole life, even though she doesn't.

It isn't exactly the same but it can relate to this:  When Marle travels to 600AD and changes history, things are officially different.  But Crono could ditch the telepod scene, pick up a history book and see nothing about the Queen being rescued in Truce Canyon.   Her past experience doesn't affect Crono's present experience.   The same goes for my package example above:  their experiences in the present and future are unrelated. 

hmmm  neat...

We need to solve puzzles like this to figure out the "Guardia Paradox".      I believe Compendium models will hold that he technically couldn't keep his promise, because he doesn't "come back" to the timeline for 1300 years.  Leaving Marle all alone.   

I don't know if I agree...

[chrono eric]

Crono and Marle are in 1000AD.  Crono needs to run to 2300AD and get a package.  He promises her that he will be back in 10 minutes.
Now, in this example, you are Marle (lol).    You wait by the gate and sure enough, Crono emerges 10 minutes after he left.

Damn I'm up late trying to organize ideas for this new Dead Sea post. I think everything we have talked about actually explains the Dead Sea, but I'm not sure yet. It's hugely complicated and I'm tired. I'm not too tired to realize that this however, is probably not correct Eske. Let's draw out the diagrams again, starting with the previous "two time travellers travelling apart example".

Time Error 0: Marle travels at Time X to Time X-400. Crono travels at Time X+10 minutes to Time X-400+10 minutes.

Time Error 1: Marle arrives at Time X-400. Crono arrives at Time X-400+10 minutes.


Both of them have time travelled, so they both arrive at Time Error 1. But what if one person time travels and the other waits for him to return as in your example?

Time Error 0: Crono travels at Time X to Time X-400. Marle sits and waits for him to return.

Time Error 1: Crono arrives at Time X-400. Sits around for awhile, and then travels again at Time X-400+10 minutes to Time X+10 minutes.

Two things could happen now and both have the same effect. Crono could remain at Time Error 1 and travel to the future to Time X+10 minutes. Or-

Time Error 2: Crono arrives at Time X+10 minutes and sees Marle waiting for him. But is she the original Marle?


She is not. For her to be the original Marle would mean that Crono would have to travel backwards in Time Error. Unless we can prove that this can happen (by creating a paradox if it couldn't), then we will assume that backwards travel through Time Error is impossible. The original Marle waits out her life for Crono to return but he never does. This explains two things: 1) Why the original Marle couldn't read in a history book about Crono's time travel to the past and 2) Why the Marle at Time Error 2 could.

Each rung in the ladder of Time Error could be viewed as a self contained universe in a state of eternal recurrence. It has to be this way, otherwise it wouldn't explain why two time travellers travelling apart as per the first example would arrive at the same point of Time Error (think about it and you'll realize this is the case).

Time Error 0: Universe begins, Crono Time travels to Time X-400, Marle remains. Eventually the universe ends. This version of the universe doesn't have Crono existing at Time X-400.

Time Error 1: Universe begins again, Crono appears at Time X-400. This version of the universe has Crono existing at Time X-400. etc.


Unless I've made a terrible oversight, Marle could not be the same. Only if she time travelled with him or after him would she not live out her life in loneliness.

[utunnels]

So if Ayla never existed to be the ancestor of Marle, it's possible that Marle and the Guardia royal line would still exist anyways. She might be a slightly different Marle, but Marle nonetheless.

Well, even if there's another Marle exists if Ayla never existed, it is another story, or we say, another time line. Even if there's a person named Marle, but things are completely different.
In fact, in CT, things are not that complex. And I agree with you, CT didn't exactly hold true to conventional science, it is more like a half science half marvel fiction, the Entity sounds like a half God like thing, yeah, if you think something is unusual, well, the Entity did it...

-----------

Off topic:

Yeah, according to the cause and effect common sense, if a person exists now, so did his ancestors. So there are 2 possibilities:

1. You can't travel backward in the time line.

2. If you can travel backward, but you can never change the fact. For example, if you attempt to murder one of your ancestors, you will 100% fail to do that.
 
I think neither of the 2 is suitable for CT.

[chrono eric]

Eske attempted to solve the problem but the answer involved travelling backwards in Time Error. I think the Ayla/Doan/Guardia paradox is unsolveable. It was overlooked and is only mentioned at the very end of the game. I think in light of other more significant events in the game we can ignore it if we can't come up with a reasonable answer.

On a related note, I'm not going to make a post regarding The Dead Sea until we make a separate post detailing everything we have squared away so far that is wrong with the Compendium's theories. I don't want to confuse too many people by drawing from different threads when I could just draw from one. So first I'm going to make a topic concerning potentiality and the concept of many possible futures overlapping, constantly changing depending on events in the present. The Compendium holds that this isn't the case (despite being mentioned in Chrono Cross. So I'd say it's canon then). And besides that, our new analysis of the Marle paradox shows that if we assume that this is the case, and we assume that Time Bastard follows the path of least resistance, then it could actually explain the Marle paradox.

Which is very signficant I think. The Dead Sea is the pinnacle of Chronoverse complexity. Some of the new theories we have been developing here let us think about it in a different light, but we're not ready to completely tear apart the Compendium's articles yet.

[Eske]

Crono and Marle are in 1000AD.  Crono needs to run to 2300AD and get a package.  He promises her that he will be back in 10 minutes.
Now, in this example, you are Marle (lol).    You wait by the gate and sure enough, Crono emerges 10 minutes after he left.

Damn I'm up late trying to organize ideas for this new Dead Sea post. I think everything we have talked about actually explains the Dead Sea, but I'm not sure yet. It's hugely complicated and I'm tired. I'm not too tired to realize that this however, is probably not correct Eske. Let's draw out the diagrams again, starting with the previous "two time travellers travelling apart example".

Time Error 0: Marle travels at Time X to Time X-400. Crono travels at Time X+10 minutes to Time X-400+10 minutes.

Time Error 1: Marle arrives at Time X-400. Crono arrives at Time X-400+10 minutes.


Both of them have time travelled, so they both arrive at Time Error 1. But what if one person time travels and the other waits for him to return as in your example?

Time Error 0: Crono travels at Time X to Time X-400. Marle sits and waits for him to return.

Time Error 1: Crono arrives at Time X-400. Sits around for awhile, and then travels again at Time X-400+10 minutes to Time X+10 minutes.

Two things could happen now and both have the same effect. Crono could remain at Time Error 1 and travel to the future to Time X+10 minutes. Or-

Time Error 2: Crono arrives at Time X+10 minutes and sees Marle waiting for him. But is she the original Marle?


She is not. For her to be the original Marle would mean that Crono would have to travel backwards in Time Error. Unless we can prove that this can happen (by creating a paradox if it couldn't), then we will assume that backwards travel through Time Error is impossible. The original Marle waits out her life for Crono to return but he never does. This explains two things: 1) Why the original Marle couldn't read in a history book about Crono's time travel to the past and 2) Why the Marle at Time Error 2 could.

Each rung in the ladder of Time Error could be viewed as a self contained universe in a state of eternal recurrence. It has to be this way, otherwise it wouldn't explain why two time travellers travelling apart as per the first example would arrive at the same point of Time Error (think about it and you'll realize this is the case).

Time Error 0: Universe begins, Crono Time travels to Time X-400, Marle remains. Eventually the universe ends. This version of the universe doesn't have Crono existing at Time X-400.

Time Error 1: Universe begins again, Crono appears at Time X-400. This version of the universe has Crono existing at Time X-400. etc.


Unless I've made a terrible oversight, Marle could not be the same. Only if she time travelled with him or after him would she not live out her life in loneliness.

Well first off,  you and I use Time Error in a very different way from the Compendium.
We use each point on the 5D axis to isolate a snapshot of an entire timeline - or in your words, a self contained universe.
For me, this came up as a misuse of Time Error that I actually grew to support - but it isn't fair to use that term to describe something that it isn't. We really should agree to a new term 

Next, the model that you used is the one that we have been using for our other threads here, and I will support it because it has helped rewrite so much.  So in that regard, my example is flawed and your analysis of what would have actually happened to Marle is correct.

But I am trying to distance myself away from theories that seem too.. "disconnected" from the games.

Example:  Schala seals the gate in 12000BC and Crono and Co. have to use the Epoch in 2300AD to return to Antiquity.  Either the developers didn't realize that in 2300AD, the Prophet had already done everything and Zeal had already fallen and blah blah,   or they didn't care.   They intended for us to return to the same 12000BC we were banished from a few hours earlier.   
So the Time Error 0, Time Error 1, etc model - although it works, doesn't explain an event in the game, it redefines the understanding of the game as a whole, it redefines what is happening - and that could be a big issue.

Time Bastard, on the other hand, is fine.   Logically speaking, we should have a double issue.  Also - Melchior and Janus just vanish into black gates, even though they are safely in the village.  Getting rid of doubles preserves Conservation and avoids cluttering the past/future.   Time Bastard explains an aspect of the game that is unexplained, but it doesn't redefine our understanding of the game in such a way as to cause conflict.

I hope people can understand what I mean by all of that lol   

============

Alright, so considering the above, let me provide a different explanation.      We are given clues that tell us the Entity aka the Planet is remembering key times in its life - creating temporal distortions.   So, when one enters the gate, they are - in a sense - travelling through time,  but they are actually experiencing a flashback.
Think of Frog as he broods over Cyrus's death in front of the magic cave.  He remembers important events that happened to him as a child, on Zenan Bridge, and Mt Denadoro.
What if Crono "inserted" himself into those memories and changed them?  Well, for Glenn that wouldn't really change the past because those memories are only in his head - he doesn't truly link himself to a different point in time.  It is a bit different for the Planet however....

I think of the Planet's flashbacks, in terms of relevance, as a point between  Glenn's flashbacks (which change nothing) - and actual Time Travel (which changes everything).

Remember Lucca in the forest?  She is asked if there is any time period she would like to return to - Lucca shys away from the question because she doesn't want to remember.
Look at the context - we are in the newly restored forest, the creator of the gates has just been identified as the Planet (more so in the Japanese text), and they are sleeping there.  Lucca feels too guilty to think of "that moment" - but the Planet recalls it, creating a gate in the process.

Perhaps the timelines we go to are somewhat more isolated than we have been predicting all along.   I've already taken the liberty of reminding people that Marle's trip to 600AD doesn't send Lucca and Crono to the DBT right away.   Speaking of that...

The DBT apparently has two variations:

The DBT intended by the developers to swallow the original Lavos who ruined the world.  and...
The DBT on steroids that has swallowed Lavos countless times due to changes in the timeline perceived by the Compendium.

I'm trying to support the former...   

Basically I will be somewhat two-faced in my analysis from now on.   I will have a "personal" analysis that I will usually brush aside (for now)  and a "compendium" analysis like the ones I have presented thus far.

====================

So we already know what my "compendium" analysis is for this topic  - but to keep this post on-topic I will provide my alternate interpretation of the Marle Paradox:

1. The Entity begins having flashbacks while dying.
2. At one such point, a device called the Telepod stimulates a reaction between Marle's pendant and the Gate.
3. Marle flows through the Planet's memories to 600AD.
4. The Entity recalls the Queen being saved at Time X in 600AD - but Marle provides resistance to this memory  -  putting her own existence into question.
5. After Time X the Entity can't properly recall Marle or Leene's other descendants - so they vanish.
6. Crono, Lucca, and Frog rescue the Queen and take her back to the castle,  creating a "new Time X".
7. The Entity is now able to recall Marle again - thus Marle is reinstated.

If you look at everything from the Entity's perspective, all of the holes seem to make sense.   Marle vanishes because the Entity cannot remember her anymore - this would have no bearing on Crono and Lucca.

Now look at the Guardia paradox with Ayla:

The Entity would recall Ayla conceiving her child at Time X, 65000000BC.  As long as that happens, Marle will still be able to exist.   Marle is lucky in that the "present" of the Entity's flashback for 65milBC is too far behind  that Time X  to ever be an issue.  The CT adventure is over before Time X rolls around -  Hence no Guardia Paradox.   
 I guess this pulls from the idea of a 5th axis to measure time since 4D is more of a "position" in CT.     maybe

So am I saying the Entity did it?  yep.   But not as a plot to device to keep things moving for Crono's adventure - the Entity just forgot Marle existed.   don't hit me lol   

EDIT: spelling error

[Acacia Sgt]

What?

*Hides Spectral Sword behind his back*

No no. Your answer has an explanation, reasons that are understandable, so no. It's more than just 'The Entity did it', so don't think that way.

[chrono eric]

Well first off,  you and I use Time Error in a very different way from the Compendium.
We use each point on the 5D axis to isolate a snapshot of an entire timeline - or in your words, a self contained universe.
For me, this came up as a misuse of Time Error that I actually grew to support - but it isn't fair to use that term to describe something that it isn't. We really should agree to a new term 

Next, the model that you used is the one that we have been using for our other threads here, and I will support it because it has helped rewrite so much.  So in that regard, my example is flawed and your analysis of what would have actually happened to Marle is correct.

But I am trying to distance myself away from theories that seem too.. "disconnected" from the games.

Ah okay. Yes I've grown use to pretty much discarding the Compendium's interpretation of things. What should we call our version of Time Error then? Any ideas? 5D Time? Perpendicular Time? But The End of Time appears to also be perpendicular both to the timeline and to Time Error, so that there appears to be 3 dimensions of space and 3 dimensions of time. So what is a more appropriate name?

And I see now, you were attempting to come up with an entirely alternate explanation for Time Error, TTI, TB, etc. by evidence given in-game. Noble, and creative at that. This is what I wanted to do. Question all of the Compendium's theories. I just couldn't think of something as super out of the box as your idea.

And I like it, but it will take some more tweaking. Dreams and dreaming are an important theme in Chrono Trigger. And Zurvan, the sea of dreams is mentioned in Cross and is the likely origin of the dream creatures and Masa, Mune, and Doreen.

So you have two sides of existence here:

1) The "real" world that Crono and co. live in. On a "real" timeline.

and 2) The "dream world" that presumably the Planet lives in, and the Black Omen came from, etc. and is important for "time" travel in your new theory.

You will also have to reconcile this with what is stated in Chrono Cross, that the future of a world is undetermined until people decide upon a particular action. This seems to demonstrate that the future is determined by the people living in the "real" world.

Come up with a mechanical framework for this in the same way that we have come up with a mechanical framework for the "traditional" view of time travel, and it may be just as legit (and hell, way more creative). I'll be thinking about it too.

[Eske]

Yea, I'm not sure yet so I'll have to think about it some more.... but I really think there is some "partial isolation" of the timelines going on.  I'm being called toward that direction right now so I'm going to just run with it until I hit a wall.

Unfortunately, because our "cycle" or "self-contained timeline"  version of Time Error probably wasn't intended - I can't show too much favor towards it anymore. 

Right now, the only Compendium theory related to Trigger that I feel comfortable with is the original version of Time Error.  ( So yes, TB and TTI bother me )

The thing about Time Bastard is.... a "strange" situation in the game is used as evidence for it.  Melchior and Janus vanish into a black gate, despite being safe in the village.

I'm sorry, but that isn't evidence for Time Bastard.   Time Bastard would not have been an intended feature in Chrono Trigger.  The lack of doubles is simply that - a "lack of information".  So to use an event in the game that may have one meaning  and twist that meaning support a theory is a shame.

So what defines as being "safe" from Lavos?  If Queen Zeal wants the gurus out of her hair, its going to happen - Lavos has the means to do it.   After hearing the story, Robo even commented that the black portals were probably gates created by Lavos.

But it's okay to ignore text in the game in favor of fan theory because Robo was just speculating, right?  =/

[chrono eric]

Unfortunately, because our "cycle" or "self-contained timeline"  version of Time Error probably wasn't intended - I can't show too much favor towards it anymore. 

Yes, but I think they didn't intend anything other than making a fun game. They weren't trying to be too technical or too philosophical. If fan theories both explain and predict events in the game adequately, then I don't see the problem with them at all.

Here's a good example I like to use. Time Travellers Immunity actually predicts and explains that the El Nido Islands would still exist even if Chronopolis never did. For a fan theory, that's pretty damned good.

So if we're going to replace fan theories with other newer fan theories, the new ones need to be at least as good as the old ones, if not better.

[Eske]

Unfortunately, because our "cycle" or "self-contained timeline"  version of Time Error probably wasn't intended - I can't show too much favor towards it anymore. 

Yes, but I think they didn't intend anything other than making a fun game. They weren't trying to be too technical or too philosophical. If fan theories both explain and predict events in the game adequately, then I don't see the problem with them at all.

Here's a good example I like to use. Time Travellers Immunity actually predicts and explains that the El Nido Islands would still exist even if Chronopolis never did. For a fan theory, that's pretty damned good.

So if we're going to replace fan theories with other newer fan theories, the new ones need to be at least as good as the old ones, if not better.

true.
I don't mind fan theories, as long as they don't twist or ignore events in the game.

[chrono eric]

Well in the case of Time Bastard (since you used that example, I will too), it doesn't twist or ignore the script of Chrono Trigger that says that Melchior and Janus were sucked into black gates. It interprets it a certain way. Now, there is more than one way to interpret things as you said, such as "Maybe Queen Zeal just wanted them gone". Well sure, that's a perfectly acceptable alternate interpretation.

However, that interpretation doesn't predict the fact that there is no problem of duplicates in the game. Time Bastard does. So in the case of the interpretation, both theories are equal. In the case of evidence, well, it's not really true evidence either way. But in the case of fan theories, Time Bastard is clearly superior to any equivalent theory brought up.

...YET, that is. I still hold out hope that we can come out with another one just as valid. Your theory holds potential, but right now I have a feeling that it will confuse a lot of people. It needs to be as simple as TTI/TB/Time Error and just as useful in interpreting events in the game.

[Eske]

Watch this:

 -- Using TTI/TB/TE in the original, Compendium form --


>>12000BC<<
Crono dies

>>End of Time<<
All playable characters are here (this matters)
Lucca, Marle, Frog have Time Egg and Doppel
These three take Epoch to 2300AD at Time X

>>2300AD<<
Epoch appears in air
Lucca, Marle, Frog, Doppel  climb Death Peak and enter gate to 12000BC
Lucca, Marle, Frog, Crono emerge from gate

Past has now been altered in 12000BC, timeline resets
========================================

>>12000BC<<
Lucca, Marle, Frog, Doppel appear but are not visible to others who are frozen
Doppel replaces Crono
Lucca, Marle, Frog, Crono enter gate to 2300AD
Doppel is destroyed by Lavos

>>End of Time<<
All playable characters are here
Lucca, Marle, Ayla have Time Egg and Doppel
These three take Epoch to 2300AD at Time X
Frog is TB'ed at Time X  (everyone at EoT is like 'wtf!?')


{{In the Chronoverse, there is no predestiny -- different choices can always be made in the present when the past is altered in any way as seen in-game}}

>>2300AD<<
Epoch appears in air -  Frog (protected by TTI) appears in the exact same spot he did before - Travel from the EoT will always take you to the same location on the planet.  Frog and Ayla literally appear inside eachother.
Despite this, Lucca, Marle, Frog/Ayla combo (alive somehow)  climb Death Peak and enter the gate to 12000BC.
Lucca, Marle, Frog are TB'ed   --  Ayla is not.
Lucca, Marle, Frog, Ayla, Crono emerge from gate

The past has changed, timeline resets
=============================================================================

>>12000BC<<
The original Lucca, Marle, and Frog, Doppel appear - with Ayla now.
Whether or not Ayla's body is restored is up in the air.
Doppel replaces Crono
All 5 of them return to 2300AD - Lucca, Marle, Frog, Crono are TB'ed

^^ You have to feel bad for Ayla - not only was she fused with Frog for some time, but every time they enter a gate, her companions on the other side will be shocked and confused to see her because the party she is with keeps getting TB'ed.   And with her cavewoman knowledge, she could never figure it out much less explain it    =)

All I did was switch out a party member.  Not the most significant or complicated change - yet it produces terrible results.   

But it gets worse than freaky fusions:

Conservation in the Chronoverse works nicely because it counts everything in the ENTIRE timeline rather than just a specific point.  So as long as things balance out in the end, Conservation is not considered violated.    Time Bastard is also helpful here because it eliminates doubles in such a way that if
Person A's counterpart does not time travel at Time X like he should - he vanishes.

This works out so that you can trace a person's existence on a timeline back and forth with your finger without lifting your finger off of the page.  There is no discontinuity.  Yay....

So, you can repeat this process, eventually making all of the team vanish from the End of Time - fuse into eachother, become confused as to why their friends don't know how someone got there -  despite having had a conversation 5 seconds before entering a gate, etc.

This is a possibility predicted by the Compendium's theories.   Of course, with some luck, the same party members will always go to Death Peak and always perform every action at the exact same time, that way TTI/TB don't mess things up.

What if the party, in another runthrough, for whatever reason, needed an extra 2 seconds to set up the Doppel to replace Crono?

TB will destroy them before they have the chance - along with Crono.  The Doppel will just be lying on the ground so that when time unfreezes in 12000BC everyone will see Crono missing and a doll just laying on the ground a few feet away.

TTI/TB work in that they help preserve events that need to exist to avoid a paradox while preserving Conservation.

They do, but they create some other effect - like timeline entropy or something.
TTI and TB protect events that have occurred, but random variables allow for other events to arise that will also be protected by TTI.  This can continually reproduce itself until you have the ultimate result: 

Micro continuity sacrificed for Macro continuity.      To an outside observer (like the player), things won't even make sense anymore.  Events on a live timeline will be completely disconnected in favor of events that existed on dead timelines. 

It's not so bad though right?  Actually it is devastating -  With gates, things may not get too out of hand - but every instance of Epoch use has to be perfectly replicated  or else fusions will occur as I mentioned earlier.

But, I do believe this entropy can be applied to every time travel event.   So take the above and complicate it with small changes made for another, if not several time travel events that are not repeated.     I think things will get out of hand really quickly.

Any thoughts?   

EDIT: took out the line "or characters will fall to their deaths" because it is incorrect.