The Catalyst of CT

[Sentenal]

We know orginally Crono and Co. were not supposed to go on their quest and defeat Lavos, because of the destroyed 2300 future.  Thus, their first apparent change in time we see is Crono bumping into Marle.  But what exactly caused this change in time?  Was it the entity?  Or chance?  I don't like the idea that it was simply chance, as then things get way too complicated.  It may have been the entity, but how did the entity effect the situation enough to cause this seemingly minor change that changed the course of history?

[V_Translanka]

The change was not Crono & Marle meeting, but, rather the portal opening and taking Marle and leaving the Pendant behind for Crono to follow her...Those things are what the Entity effected.

[Sentenal]

Didn't that portal get created due to Marle's pendant reacting with the Telepod?  So orginally, there was no reaction?

[Chrono'99]

There always was a reaction with the Telepod even in the original time-line. It's not as if something special artificially replaced the Lavos time-line by the Keystone one, rather the original time-line was just meant to eventually be modified with time-traveling.

And actually, we could really say the end of the original time-line is 1,000 AD. Everything Crono see after the Millenial Fair (whether it's in the past or the future) is the Keystone time-line.

It's just that, until Crono effectively prevents Lavos from destroying the future, the future is destroyed. That's why he could witness the ruined 2,300AD.

[SilentMartyr]

There always was a reaction with the Telepod even in the original time-line.

How can you be so sure? If the entity controlled the reaction then in the original timeline there would have been no reaction, since the events hadn't been set in motion yet.

[ZeaLitY]

I've always identified it as such. Really, Trigger begins when the Entity says "Hey, I need to do something about Lavos destroying everything." The Entity then made the Gates, perhaps collaborated with Gaspar, set everything up, etc. and so when the reaction with the Telepod occured, it opened a Gate created by the Entity that began the quest. We have no idea what would have happened before, since the Entity possibly influenced the Ocean Palace Incident and other matters. I tried tracing all his influence back with Lord J Esq, and will see if he still has our attempt.

[Chrono'99]

There always was a reaction with the Telepod even in the original time-line.

How can you be so sure? If the entity controlled the reaction then in the original timeline there would have been no reaction, since the events hadn't been set in motion yet.

I mean, the Entity controlled the reaction, but it's not really different from anything else, like, for instance, Lucca building Gato, or Gina naming her son "Crono" when he was born. You're speaking about the original time-line in which the Entity didn't do the reaction, we could also imagine a time-line in which Lucca didn't build Gato or one in which Gina named her son "Harry" or something...

We can imagine how the world was going to be after 1,000AD, before the Entity decided to make Gates, but the fact is that it effectively made Gates anyway. It's like how we could imagine how the world was going to be before Lucca decided to build Gato, the fact is that she effectively built him anyway, so that the "original" future without Gato never existed.

As some scientist from Chronopolis says in Chrono Cross, the world's aspect is only stabilized by the view point of the one who observes it. In Chrono Trigger, Crono's the one who observes the world. And according to him the Dreamstone-Telepod reaction happened and had always happened.

Err... I'm rambling and going a bit off-topic so, what I meant to say was just that the Entity did its stuff anyway, and we can't really know what happened in the original time-line since Crono "leaves" it (and cast it in the DBT by the way) as soon as Marle is thrown in the first Gate.

[Sentenal]

so basically, the entity made that reaction.  does that mean in the orginal timeline, Marle came out on the other side?  It didn't seem like a freak accident, as Crono immenidatly repeated it.  How would the entity have a hand in apparently altering physics?  An ever bigger question is if the entity could do this, why couldn't to take care of Lavos on its own?

[ZeaLitY]

The Entity can seemingly transcend time, and even dimensions (as seen in Chrono Cross). Lavos is an incredibly powerful being, also capable of making his own Pocket Dimension and working temporal effects. He could thus fight on any grounds the Entity tried to battle him through. There could be other factors, but I believe the Entity, simply because it was defeated once and is a subtle, god-like power, enlisted heroes to directly vanquish Lavos.

As Chrono'99 said, to Crono, he woke up one day and everything happened. If it was prerequisite that the Entity had to get hurt in 1999 A.D. before he created the Gates, then Crono probably went to the fair, and the Telepod stuff worked out fine. Nothing major happened, and time strolled up to 1999 A.D. and caused the planet to create the Gates and set its plan in motion. We have no way of knowing, because we are really the observer here.

[Zaperking]

Umm just on the topic of gates, Even if Marle didn't go to the fair and the whole pendant-telepod thing occured, Somewhere in Chronopolis it says that gates are like blackholes and that they are always there, just that something like a gate key is needed to open them up. I'll try and look for the acctual script.

But if this was true, anyone could have one day made a gate key (probably Lucca) and travelled through time without the whole Marle incident.

[doulifee]

probably that Lavos pocket dimension, make him "immune" to alteration made by the entity

[GrayLensman]

Umm just on the topic of gates, Even if Marle didn't go to the fair and the whole pendant-telepod thing occurred, Somewhere in Chronopolis it says that gates are like blackholes and that they are always there, just that something like a gate key is needed to open them up. I'll try and look for the actual script.

But if this was true, anyone could have one day made a gate key (probably Lucca) and travelled through time without the whole Marle incident.

That was in reference to the Time Egg, see below.  The Time-Gates created by the Entity and the Epoch/Neo-Epoch may function under similar principles.  However, the Time-Gates were closed permanently after the defeat of Lavos, so a Gate Key alone would not allow time travel.

Computer: Let's see... In the 11th Century, a scientist by the name of Lucca indicated the possibility of time travel through the use of a "Time Egg," which utilizes miniature black holes. Whether this could actually be possible or not is still the subject of intense debate and no conclusions have been made.
Computer: According to her theory, by rotating a single point of supergravity, space-time continua can be drawn in... thus making it possible to transform that singular point which pulls in everything else, into a ring formation.  Using this ring as a Gate between dimensions, it should be possible to travel back and forth between various space-time.

[Zaperking]

Oops, Thanks for correcting me Gray:) Now I see.

On the topic of time eggs, How many were used in Chrono Cross?

I can remember 3 i think:

Belthasars Time Egg
The Astrul Amulets
And Lucca's incomplete one (Didn't she have like another one somewhere in her room and she said not to touch it?)

[X ATM038x]

About the gatekey, if anyone could've made one sometime and used it on a portal or something, what's the gatekey made from?
If it's something that shoots electricity or something, the telepod could've give the reaction together with the pendant, or maybe the pendant doesn't even have to do anything with the time traveling (I mean the concept of going through portals and stuff). Or maybe I'm missing a point here, since the pendant's always in the party at CT and the gatekey was needed to travel back and forth except for the first time and when they used the Epoch... Maybe it's something we could never actually get facts for -.-, but is there some explaination?

[Zaperking]

The gate key is made from the back of the telepod. Even if Crono didn't wear the amulet, the gate key still opens gates. Like how Lucca got into 600AD. I'm thinking that the pendant only triggers the opening effect, but the gate key can open it at any time once it has been activated.