Cleaning up the Fan Projects page

[ZeaLitY]

http://www.chronocompendium.com/Term/Fan_Projects

It's cluttered. There's also an issue in that if I register on the forum as "steve2130" and post in Kajar Laboratories about "CHRONO DINNER, TOTALLY AWESOME PROJECT, COMING 2011", there is nothing stopping my lie from getting on the Fan Projects page.

Proposed remedies:

• Move the Abandoned section to its own page
• Put ongoing projects above completed to promote up and coming stuff
• Bar addition of fan projects to the page unless they can pass "Certification"

The Certification idea keeps steve2130's lie off the Fan Projects page. To be certified, a fan project must:

• Pass Luminaire85's "You seem to be making a fan project. This will fail because..." test by having competent talent, a feasible project idea, realistic goals, some progress, etc.
• At most, 4 years until project completion from date of certification

And these things will be analyzed and voted on by the site's administrators: Me, Faustwolf, Radical_Dreamer, and V_Translanka, PLUS the most influential project developer / hacker (and his name will be jsondag2). I'd put more people in here like Chrono'99, but these people will at least assuredly be around for the next few months. A majority vote of three is necessary to certify a project. These people are well qualified because:

• V_Translanka - Has a no-nonsense, common sense approach to things.
• FaustWolf - Is a realist and seemingly aware of every living part of the Chrono community.
• ZeaLitY - Has experience and fluency in the Chrono community.
• jsondag2 - Knows every in and out of development and single-handedly coded most of Crimson Echoes while saving the project.
• Radical_Dreamer - Is a professional game developer.

So, if this sounds Kosher, we'll begin voting on projects pretty darn soon. Suggestions? If any of the proposed voters have political concerns (as an example, perhaps V_Translanka will really piss someone off if he votes against their project), let me know.

[MDenham]

I'd like to note that if the platform of choice for development is anything of the previous generation (GC, PS2, or original XBox), the range be extended to 4 years, and if it's the current generation, that it be automatically shot down (nothing against XB360 projects using XNA, such as *ahem* an HD port of CC, but the issue there is more "liable to get C&Ded quickly").

[justin3009]

•3 years until project completion

- That seems rather meh.  Some projects won't ever get help because either everyone else is taken or people just don't have interest.  If you're an only person doing a project, it could fail but sometimes it miraculously lives.  It would definitely take up to 3 years if not more if you're a 1-4 person group.

[ZeaLitY]

Well, that's sort of done with CC:DBT in mind. I have every confidence that it will be possible to do CC:DBT at some point (although it may take incredible amounts of work), and even FaustWolf has noted that it might be like a 10 year thing. So it'd be sort of unfair to go bonanza promoting that all over the place when most Chrono fans are going to be entirely different people by the time it's released.

But perhaps 4 years can work. I wanted to avoid 5, since yeah, that's...I mean, Chrono fans are usually young, and go through life changes that steal them away from the fandom, so...

[Radical_Dreamer]

I'm unclear as to what you mean by 3 years until completion. Do they have up to a 3 year schedule, or is that the time limit before they are de-certified barring creator intervention?

[V_Translanka]

(as an example, perhaps V_Translanka will really piss someone off if he votes against their project)

LOL...good to know my reputation proceeds me? Uh, anyways, I still find it incredible that I'm even considered to be included in this kind of thing...But, sure, I would love to lend a hand. I really should be getting more familiar with fan projects and I've always felt unsure as to where to move such threads (but I had always just thought of some kind of Baby Kajar or something )...The only possible problem I could see with the 3~4 year completion thing is that people that are newer to "the scene" (? >_>) might not know how long it would take...but, maybe that's sort of the point...?

[ZeaLitY]

I'm unclear as to what you mean by 3 years until completion. Do they have up to a 3 year schedule, or is that the time limit before they are de-certified barring creator intervention?

Sorry for "until completion", I was multitasking...

Completed 3 years from the date of certification. If it would take 4, it might not be so feasible to begin wtih.

[justin3009]

I can see why 5 would be avoided.  3-4 at max if not maybe a little overboard by a month or 2, but not half a year or more.

[ZeaLitY]

Yeah, and plus we've got that other criteria...okay, changed to 4.

NOTE: NOT RULES FOR GETTING A FAN PROJECT FORUM, JUST APPEARING ON THE FAN PROJECT PAGE.

[FaustWolf]

The setup sounds good to me.

Yeah, it's important that people realize this is just to get on the official projects page, which is a separate issue from getting a project forum -- I think a project forum should go to those able to put together some kind of tech demo showing the team has minimum capability to create something. Taking CC:DBT as an example, I guess/hope that the "Chrono Trigger 13th Birthday Tribute" and "Magus Unmasked" videos would suffice for that, if people needed an example.

It's really difficult to judge when a large scale project will be complete (that depends on whether people suddenly get pulled out due to real life issues, which is bound to happen as we well know), but maybe we could judge from the completion time for CE and Chrono Trigger+ as useful averages for larger projects.

It'd be great to have an advice page for people wanting to start major fan projects, something that really sobers people up before they embark on something heavy duty. I mean, there's pre-production, production, and post-production phases; a need for art, coding, and scenario writing talent...I mean, fans need to realize that they're really embarking on something akin to making a major motion picture.

[Vehek]

CE is probably not the best example because of problems such as no one working on programming the game events at times.

[Agent 12]

Hm.....i could have sworn i posted this earlier before i went to work...i'm guessing somone posted before me so it errored to that double check things are ok page but anyways here's the gist:

putting completion as a criteria is hard to do and it's a bit hypocritical considering the history of CE.  What I would suggest is that a project to get on the fan page (again reiterating that this is not criteria for a forum)

1) has an OUTLINE of the game/goals. 
       Note that it's an outline, it's almost a waste of time to try to do the details at this point in production, things will change.  Usually people are on a "fan project" high at the beginning and imagine themselves doing crazy things that just aren't practical/feasible/possible.
2) demonstrate a 10% demo.  If you have a 20 chapter project planned you need a demo of 2 chapters. 
    This will so that there is atleast someone technical in the project and given an infinite amount of time it can eventually get done.  The demo should so a sample of each of the goals...if you want new techs it better have a new tech in it, if you are adding a new sprite it has to have some sprite changed, if you are having battles it should have some sort of dungeon.


Vehek - I think that CE is actually a pretty realistic example.  It's simply a fact of life that people can't work consecutively for the entire length of the project.   Though i do admit had I/chrono 99  been there from start => finish CE would probably be released by now.

FW: No offense but if my above rules were to apply I wouldn't vote to put CC:DBT on the page.  While the magus video did show some aspects of your project you have to admit that CC:DBT is quite a bit more ambitious than what those videos so (i.e. no new maps/techs/ exits/ complicated events/ weapons and armor/ stats/ etc )

--JP

EDIT:  I didn't mean that last comment to come off mean or anything and i'm sure some of that stuff has been decoded but the point is I wouldn't consider that a demo for CC:DBT

[FaustWolf]

I'd prefer to keep CC:DBT off the table with respect to this thread's subject for the time being, to tell you the truth -- ZeaLitY called me a "realist" for a reason. It's got far too much development time remaining to unveil just yet. All the questions the development team would have to answer would suck up too much actual development time and energy.

AE:HU will be submitted for consideration first as a stand-alone project once we've got a demo build. I'm hoping for that by September.

[Agent 12]

Sorry I only brought it up cause you used it as an example.  I'm just saying that a demo needs to be something that really shows this project is possible.

--JP

[Belaith]

When the four years are up, the project leader should re-apply for a fan project page with noticably massive updates to the project and the voters re determine whether it should be put back on the fan project page.

AE:HU will be within the range of a playable demo in a matter of a few months or so. The demo shouldn't be released to the general public, period.

Edit: Should this topic be hidden to the public considering upcoming secrets were thrown out into the open? Or should it be left viewable to kinda let em know it's coming, but they'll never guess what it is.