Where did the Mystics come from?

[utunnels]

They have the same name? That's kind of weird. What's the connection although I don't want an answer like they both are not in the dimensions.

   This is the Bend of Time...
   A special battlefield, where
   monsters travel across
   dimension to gather.
   You can battle monsters that
   you may have missed...

The English names are all about time while the JPN names are about dimension. That's sort of strange because this game is about dimension travel.
Maybe like the End of Time in CT, which time travellers sometimes get stuck in. So maybe similar things happen to dimension travellers?


http://www.chronocompendium.com/images/wiki/f/f7/Mp60.jpg
Ah, I forgot threre're Missing Piece Character Scans on this site...

According to in-game character description, Sprigg's origin is "次元の渦", which means Dimensional Vortex, while the English version uses "Temporal Vortex".
I didn't actually play the JPN version, but as far as I can tell, the scenario is called "次元の狭間 - さまよえる魂たちよ"(A Narrow Gap Between Dimensions -  Where souls wander). Then English version is "Temporal Vortex - Where lost souls wander".

I don't have the Bend of Time script now, although.


OK, I managed to dump the Bend of Time script.

ここは次元のはざま……
特殊なバトルフィールド、

次元を超えてモンスターたちの
集まる場所。

This is the dimension narrow gap(a narrow gap between dimensions )...
A special battlefield.
This is a place where monsters travel across dimensions to gather.

Notice: 次元のはざま = 次元の狹間

[mav]

Very interesting...I assume the similarities in name are simply to denote the manner of existence, in regard to the other dimensions. The Bend of Time is accessible through both dimensions, right? And the Vortex seems to have nothing to do with the other dimensions, thus acting as a gap between the two--as neither dimension truly fills the gap.

I pulled that outta my ass, but it sounds right.

[ZealKnight]

Ok Instead of posting a new topic,I'm just reviving this one because so much has been said.

Basically we came up with nothing but questions. However utunnels found a nice little translation quirk. In english they are named after time, in jap they are dimensional. However, Sprigg doesn't seem to belong in the Vortex. And Ozzie, Flea, and Slash we know did not originate in the bend in time. This brings me to think of one other unique creature in a gap between something. Spekkio. Spekkio has all the qualities of mystic. (especially Sprigg) They both are found outside the normal flow of time, give magic, and change form. If we consider Sprigg as a possible answer, why not Spekkio? All mystics are cryptic and they have an inter-dimensional battlefield. The theory I'm thinking of is that mystics are not born of lavos or dragonians or any form of magic we already know but are some sort of creature that evolves with magic before it evolves intelligence. Perhaps they are born in these gaps outside the flow of time, but aren't very smart or just don't care all that much.

...my head hurts...

[Lennis]

Everyone is assuming that the Mystics (or Demons - really hate that description, BTW) are monsters that have always been a part of the world.  What if they weren't originally monsters at all?  What if they were humans tragically transformed into monsters through magical means?  There's no canon evidence for this, I'm just saying...

[ZealKnight]

Only problem with that is every problem we have with the theories posted. We have no proof or evidence or even a clue to that being the case Lennis. But congrats for being the first person to post in the analysis threads in who knows just how long.

[-LzR-]

The best clue we have is that they didn't exist in 64.000.000BC but did in 12.000 BC.
Yeah whatever. Some magic stuff or another race that evolved into such level.

[Thought]

I still think the best evidence we have is from Spekkio:

Hm?
You guys have it.
Power of the heart...

I get it, that's why the old man outside let you in here.
Long before you guys were born...
There was a kingdom that prospered by magic.
Everyone in that world used magic.

But that country grew addicted to magical power
and was destroyed...
After that, people became unable to use magic.
Except for the Demons anyway.

This isn't definitive, but it certainly seems like Spekkio is linking humans and mystics, and in particular mystics with Zeal. This position seems further bolstered by the fact that Magus integrates with them and learns their magic. Finally, given that the power of Lavos corrupts (as indicated in CC), it would seem that the Mystics were just the most corrupt humans.

[ZealKnight]

Thought, I already proved that that can't be. Mystics are in the Lost Sanctum. A dimension without Zeal or Lavos.

[Mr Bekkler]

Isn't dalton there too?

[Thought]

Thought, I already proved that that can't be. Mystics are in the Lost Sanctum. A dimension without Zeal or Lavos.

Problem there is that the Dragonites are missing. From CC we know that in a dimension without Lavos they evolved from the Reptites. So why don't the reptites in the Lost Sanctum evolve? Or, for that matter, why did the vine ladder that the party created last millions of years? Heck, what about joining the same item to itself several times? Even if the Lost Sanctum can be counted as canon (which it isn't clear that it can), it clearly isn't behaving like the normal dimension and as such we can't know how it does or does not relate to the normal Crono-verse.

Bekkler, I don't recall Dalton being there. Perhaps you are thinking of the Dimensional Vortex?

[Mr Bekkler]

Yep, to me the Lost Sanctum and Dimensional Vortex are very different in intent, but almost identical in execution. In other words, neither adds a lot to the story, makes much sense, or was done rather well.
I think most people take these areas as non-canon additions to Trigger. What about Arena of the Ages? Has ANYONE actually played it for an extended period of time? Cause it sounded like a crappy Chrono themed version of Pokemon. I visited once, found out you purchase, level up, and fight your "cute monster" with others. Resisting the urge to Michael Vick it up, I promptly left and never returned.

My point is, I don't think you can take much of the added content too seriously. Kato "oversaw development". Which means he came in and said "for this one, make them reptites. For that one, have Dalton show up and threaten them. Now where's my check?"

[Acacia Sgt]

Has ANYONE actually played it for an extended period of time?

...

Well, if anything, I see it as a 'Bend of Time + Grand Slam' reference sort of thing...? Ah well...

Anyway... in regards about the Lost Sanctum and the Vortexes, yeah, it's hard that with the nature of what's inside. But, if anything, the Dalton part can still be true. Who knows what really happened to him after he got in that gate, so ending up in the Vortex can make sense... if there is really any sense, as this is all temporal stuff... 

[Mr Bekkler]

I'm not arguing the direct choice they made to say Dalton was there, just saying that re-used sprites on re-used map tiles to create extra content should be taken with a grain of salt if you're talking about canon. That's like deleted scenes on a dvd.

[ZealKnight]

Thought, I already proved that that can't be. Mystics are in the Lost Sanctum. A dimension without Zeal or Lavos.

Problem there is that the Dragonites are missing. From CC we know that in a dimension without Lavos they evolved from the Reptites. So why don't the reptites in the Lost Sanctum evolve? Or, for that matter, why did the vine ladder that the party created last millions of years? Heck, what about joining the same item to itself several times? Even if the Lost Sanctum can be counted as canon (which it isn't clear that it can), it clearly isn't behaving like the normal dimension and as such we can't know how it does or does not relate to the normal Crono-verse.

Bekkler, I don't recall Dalton being there. Perhaps you are thinking of the Dimensional Vortex?

Thought, basically your just writing off the Lost Sanctum as non-cannon, correct?

[Thought]

Not really. I am saying that because everything is so messed up in the Lost Sanctum, how the information we get from the sanctum relates to the rest of the world is at this point not clear enough to be useful.

So there are Reptites there; should we take those to be Reptites from a dimension in which Lavos never fell? If so, why don't they evolve into Dragonians? Is this a dimension that is actually separate from the Dragonian dimension of which we are familiar? Does time pass as normal there (the vines would indicate not)? If it isn't the Dragonian dimension, and if time doesn't pass normally, what relative point in time are these events occurring? And if there are these questions for the Reptites, why shouldn't similar questions apply to the Mystics (or mystic-like things) that exist there?

At present we don't know how to evaluate this information. Saying that the Mystics can't have evolved from humans because they are present in the Lost Sanctum requires that we make assumptions about the LS that just aren't tenable at this point.