Where did the Mystics come from?

[ZealKnight]

I just never really thought about this until I went to the Lost Sanctum in the Middle Ages. They took out the Reptites, but they still came about without the humans. Makes me wonder why they were not visable in Pre-history. They started appearing in the Antiquity, but I always assumed that they evolved from monsters/dinosaurs due to Lavos.

[FouCapitan]

Well I believe the Lost Sanctum represented another dimension (Which in Chrono Cross eventually spawns Dinopolis).

As for the Fiends/Mystics/Mazoku, I always assumed that they were a broad spectrum of beings created through magical powers and perhaps summoned from other worlds (Demons).

Some may have originally been human and changed their bodies to demonic forms through magic use, which would explain why many have humanoid features.

I think to better clarify this we need to know exactly what qualifies as a Mystic.  Imps, gargoyles, naga, and the armored thugs from the cathedral probably all qualify, but what about other intelligent monsters like Krawlie and such?

Then you have other races such as the faeries and dwarves.  Would they fall under the category of Mystics or not?  There's the fact that demi-humans from El Nido aren't, but that's a matter of lineage.

I honestly don't think any of the original CT developers were thinking too deeply into this, and merely coined the term to name the intelligent magical monsters of the middle age/present time into a category.  As for their origins, it's probably varied dependant on the different species.

[Thought]

Actually, Mystics are humans. Look at Spekkio's words:

You are strong of will...!

That's why the Old One let you through.

Long before you were born...
there was a kingdom where magic flourished.
Everyone there could use it!

But in time, people began to abuse
their powers. It got so bad that no
one was allowed to use magic except
wizards.

Yeah, that doesn't tell you much, but look at the same line in the retranslation:

Hm?
You guys have it.
Power of the heart...

I get it, that's why the old man outside let you in here.
Long before you guys were born...
There was a kingdom that prospered by magic.
Everyone in that world used magic.

But that country grew addicted to magical power
and was destroyed...
After that, people became unable to use magic.
Except for the Demons anyway.

Basically, Spekkio states a few key things:

In past, all humans could use magic.
Because of abuse, humans lost the means of using magic.
However, this is qualified by a group being excluded; "demons" could still use magic.

While not absolute evidence, it strongly implies that Spekkio sees demons as a subgroup of humans.

There is a thread around here somewhere that discusses the evolution of the different species that includes further discussion on this.

EDIT: Here is the afor mentioned thread: http://www.chronocompendium.com/Forums/index.php/topic,5160.0.html

[V_Translanka]

That Spekkio quote just makes it sound like Demons/Mystics still existed back then able to use Magic...I'm thinking they probably came from Zealian's study of Magic somehow. Mt. Woe certainly has a lot of monsters on it capable of evolving into the later Mystics...and then there's the summoning that we see at least Dalton is capable of...

[mav]

I'd like to agree that what Spekkio says makes it sound like the Demons are a separate group from humans, but it's worded strangely: i.e. all humans became unable to use magic, except for the demon group. I don't recall, but is the word "wizard", in the NA translation, different from Mystics, or do both words refer to the same group?

Some Mystics seem far more humanoid, like Flea and Slash...I could see them being related to humans somehow, but the theory that all Mystics are/were once humans seems tenuous to me.

[Thought]

Consider this extrapolation of the basic reasoning, using a different subject matter.

"Long ago felines were omnivores
Every cat ate both meat and vegetables.

But they grew addicted to food and declined in numbers due to obesity.
After that, cats became unable to digest vegetables.
Except for cows, anyway."

Either that statement implies cows are felines, or it’s a non sequitur.

Now the wizards/mystics bit might just be a random non sequitur, but the context seems to link them with the "people" of zeal.

To note, there doesn't seem to be anything in particular separating the beasties on Mt. Woe from Mystics (other than, perhaps, speech).

[Xenterex]

I would go with them being either byproducts of Zeal, or results of evolution from creatures of that era.  Take the Giga Gaia for example. That seems to be the earliest major mystic I can think of,  seems somewhat mechanical in nature (at least to me)  and he's there to guard Mt Woe.  So either the mystics were created by Zeal (at least a strand of them anyway) or the budding species were enslaved by Zeal, which might explain their future (from that period's perspective) hated and war with mankind.

[FouCapitan]

Well there's three examples of Mystic-type monsters present in Zeal, if we count alternative colored sprites as being relatives to each other (Makes sense).

Stone Imps, Gargoyles, and Djinn (Ghul too).  All three of those monster types are seen in Magus' army and the first two are seen living in Medina.

There is also one possible Mystic-type monster in 65mil BC as well.  The Aecyto Weevil.  This would only count if you group the Rhino Weevils in Heckran cave into the Mystics.  Considering most of the monsters in the cave consist of bats, octopus monsters, and other creatures, I'd count this as a weak link.

So with that, it would seem that most of the Mystics came about in Antiquity.  Imps, Gargoyles, and the sorceror-type Djinn monsters.  But again, without any concrete explanation of their origins from legit sources (Kato's mouth or the games themselves) we can only speculate how they came to be.

[ZealKnight]

^exactly, but I always use to think it had something to do with magic, maybe they were born from magic? But they are in the Non-Lavos dimension. So could it be that it isn't the Non-Lavos Dimension, what if it is a Lavos dimension but the Dinos got a hold of the Frozen Flame. These are just ideas. My point is Mystics have a really strange past and I was shocked to not find anything on their origins in the encyclopedia. And we know mystics can choose any form they want. How does this happen?

[mav]

I've always felt that way myself--that the Mystics are a byproduct of magic use, which would make us think they came around during Zeal's prosperity. I think they'd have had to exist pre-12000BC--as they establish themselves as a pseudo-society after the Fall of Zeal.

Oh, and my memory is foggy, where exactly does it say that Mystics can choose any form they want?

EDIT: Oh wait, were you referring to Mystics taking the guise of humans, a la Magus's castle?

[V_Translanka]

There's also Flea & the Yakras. I don't think any case is enough to say that all Mystics can choose any form they want, though.

[Boo the Gentleman Caller]

I bet the Mystics were the result of Bekkler - who was a scientist in Zeal at the time.

Just throwing it out there.

[Acacia Sgt]

I think the Mystics are, like in the case of humans, the ones among the monsters who got gifted in magic. Probably by a different method, which is why they didn't lost it when Lavos destroyed Zeal.

[ZealKnight]

I've always felt that way myself--that the Mystics are a byproduct of magic use, which would make us think they came around during Zeal's prosperity.

I bet the Mystics were the result of Bekkler - who was a scientist in Zeal at the time.

Obviously you two missed it when I said they have to be able to exist without humans if the Lost Sanctum is the Reptite dimension seeing as they exist there. Also reminds me Nus exist there also, so where do they come from?

There's also Flea & the Yakras. I don't think any case is enough to say that all Mystics can choose any form they want, though.

Let me answer that with this link.
http://www.chronocompendium.com/Forums/index.php/topic,3455.msg74909.html#msg74909
It's just like Sprigg.

[Boo the Gentleman Caller]

I bet the Mystics were the result of Bekkler - who was a scientist in Zeal at the time.

Obviously you two missed it when I said they have to be able to exist without humans if the Lost Sanctum is the Reptite dimension seeing as they exist there. Also reminds me Nus exist there also, so where do they come from?

Shhh.... Don't tell anyone, but... You missed my sarcasm.