Where did the Mystics come from?

[mav]

Indeed, it'd be quite interesting to know whether Lavos had a direct influence on the emergence and evolution of Mystics. But how does Sprigg affirm that Mystics have power over time or dimensions? The fact that Sprigg may have accidentally been trapped/transported to the Vortex make me think that Mystics have just as little knowledge about dimensional travel...although they may have more time experimenting with it...Wait, I guess that does kind of affirm it...

Well, how did Serge get sent to Sprigg's house? Was it the Dragon Tear? Lynx's doing (I forget)?

I literally just played through this part of CC, and I believe Lynx forced Serge into the Vortex.

[chrono eric]

Lynx sent him there in Fort Dragonia. This is a part of the plot which I never fully understood. Why didn't Lynx just kill him? He seemingly sends him there so that he has the possibility of living. Then later on, after he regains his body and enters the Sea of Eden, Lynx/Dark Serge/FATE apparently had been waiting for him to get there the entire time. FATE gives the little speech about "blah blah blah I've been using you this whole time" and then proceeds to try to kill them like it should have done in the first place.

I can't figure out FATE's logic here. If FATE is killed, the Dragon Gods are released and this is not what FATE wants. FATE only needs Serge's body to get into the Sea of Eden and regain control over the Frozen Flame and that's it. FATE uses Kid to lure Serge there, and then tells him the grand master plan only to try to kill him afterwards? What the hell was the point of that?

But all that is besides the point. Back on the topic of the Mystics, we can safely say that Sprigg originated in the real world, and that the other Mystics probably originated in the real world too. The first time we see them is in 12,000 BC, after humanity has made contact with the Frozen Flame. There is probably a connection there.

[ZealKnight]

I think FATE was drawing out the Dragon Gods, If I remember correctly they were not part of the original time line so she has no record on them and needs them dead in case they prevent her own death, but they are protected and hidden. Actually that doesn't sound like the right reason, but it indeed was to kill the avatar if the Dragon God.

[chrono eric]

Well, I don't believe that is correct, because it was FATE that sealed the power of the Dragon God (by dividing it up into the elemental dragons) using the power of the Frozen Flame. Presumably FATE did this to prevent the Dragon God from influencing the history of the mainland. When FATE was killed, only then could FATE's power of the Dragon Gods be released.

So if FATE wanted to kill the Dragon God, she would have to kill herself first in order to do it. That doesn't make sense.

[FouCapitan]

Well, how did Serge get sent to Sprigg's house? Was it the Dragon Tear? Lynx's doing (I forget)?

A dimensional rift opens right as the Dragon Tear shattered in Lynx's hand.  It's never really explained how.  It could have been Lynx's power, the dragon tear, or both combined.

I also never understood Lynx letting Serge live back there.  Would have been an easy win to just kill Serge, go to Chronopolis and regain control of the Flame.

[Chrono'99]

It would be pretty boring to win without anyone knowing. FATE probably just wanted to have Serge know that she's winning. After all, it's not like she wanted to conquer the world or destroy the universe or anything. She just wanted to reincarnate into a real living species.

Perhaps even FATE itself dreamed of using the Flame to some day reincarnate itself into a new species.

Show me what the purpose of your life on this planet is... Teach me what it means to be '"alive!!!"'

As for the Mystics, the theory that says they were created in Zeal is probably the best one. Even in the pre-release version Queen Zeal mentions throwing the party members into a "research room", perhaps where they study stuff and make experiments?

[Thought]

Indeed, it'd be quite interesting to know whether Lavos had a direct influence on the emergence and evolution of Mystics.

Yup. Lets see, Mystics are known for using magic. What other creatures did Lavos influence so that they could use magic...

Queen Zeal All Hail Queen Zeal! had Melchior imprissoned on Mt. Woe, implying that it was a prison and thus making the mystic-like-beasties there guards.

Magus, a Zealean, seems to be able to get along with mystics rather nicely.

Its almost like Zeal was using mystics (or proto-mystics) as guards. Or maybe even slave labour (which might plant the seeds for the two subspecies to hate each other and eventually war over it).

[placidchap]

Queen Zeal All Hail Queen Zeal! had Melchior imprissoned on Mt. Woe, implying that it was a prison and thus making the mystic-like-beasties there guards.

Or they could have been prisoners themselves, with Giga Gaia as the "warden".

[Thought]

Strange, then, that the only guard wasn't guarding the exit, but very possible.

Randomness, but in comparing the 12,000 BC and 1000 AD maps, Mt. Woe seems to connect to the earth on or near Lucca's island. The mountain itself then would be falling is a Medina-ish direction (though not far enough to actually be Medina).

[placidchap]

Well I suppose then those beasts were guarding the entrance/exit could be on the Queen's payroll too, along with Mr Giga "Warden" Gaia.

It kind of looks like Mt. Woe would fall near the location of Ocean Palace, Magus' castle and where Death Peak resides.

[ZealKnight]

They are not related to Zeal. If the Lost Sanctum is the Reptite Dimension, then Zeal did not exist but somehow Mystics do. That was the entire point of this topic. My theories are...

1. The Mystics have nothing to do with Lavos and evolved on their own.
2. The Mystics evolved from Magic and Lavos did fall into the Reptite Dimension.
3. The Mystics evolved from Magic and the Lost Sanctum is not the Reptite Dimension, but a form of it where Lavos did fall.
4. The Mystics were born in Zeal and the Lost Sanctum is not the Reptite Dimension, but another dimension where the fight between Humans and Reptites continued until Zeal was built and destroyed by the Reptites. Leaving the Mystics to rule the earth.

The point of making this topic was to see if we could find any other theory and find the most likely answer. Or at least find some clue to their origin so I can eliminate one of these theories.

[Zephira]

They are not related to Zeal. If the Lost Sanctum is the Reptite Dimension, then Zeal did not exist but somehow Mystics do. That was the entire point of this topic. My theories are...

So if Lost Sanctum is in a dimension where Ayla and Crono Co never beat Azala and the reptites, why does that mean Zeal wouldn't exist?

Take a look at the Reptite ending in CT, where you kill Lavos after Magus' Castle and before killing Azala. All the humans are replaced by Reptites, yet all their speech, villages and actions are exactly the same. Yeah, I know, non-canon ending, but it still offers a glimpse into another 'dimension'. So if Reptites went on to produce Guardia, Leene Square and Crono, what's to say they couldn't discover magic and produce Zeal?

[ZealKnight]

They are not related to Zeal. If the Lost Sanctum is the Reptite Dimension, then Zeal did not exist but somehow Mystics do. That was the entire point of this topic. My theories are...

So if Lost Sanctum is in a dimension where Ayla and Crono Co never beat Azala and the reptites, why does that mean Zeal wouldn't exist?

No the Reptite dimension is the dimension where humans are wiped out, therefor Crono and Co. would never exist.

[Zephira]

Again, refer to this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1BYzrnqEEHE
They are reptites, but they are still Crono and his mom. He even runs into Marle at the fair. They still have the potential to defeat Lavos; and for reptites to produce an exact mirror of Guardia and Crono, there would have had to be a Reptite-Zeal.

[Chrono'99]

Again, refer to this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1BYzrnqEEHE
They are reptites, but they are still Crono and his mom. He even runs into Marle at the fair. They still have the potential to defeat Lavos; and for reptites to produce an exact mirror of Guardia and Crono, there would have had to be a Reptite-Zeal.

That timeline is a timeline in which Lavos still fell. If you really want to rationalize the existence of a Reptite Crono and all, a simple explanation would be that since Lavos still fell, the Frozen Flame still fell too, but went on to evolve/corrupt the Reptites rather than the humans.

The Reptite dimension, however, is a timeline in which Lavos apparently didn't fall at all. No Lavos, no Frozen Flame, no corruption.

With all this in mind, I'm thinking ZealKnight's theory 1 is the most likely: "The Mystics have nothing to do with Lavos and evolved on their own". Sprigg can apparently teach some magic tricks to people simply by giving them a berry to eat. Perhaps Mystics are simply closer to nature than humans and unlocked their magic abilities naturally, whereas the humans needed artificial means like the Frozen Flame, the Sun Stone, and the Mammon Machine.