Religion chat anyone

[chrono eric]

I didn't really want to get involved in this thread except to put in my two cents which I already did earlier, but I feel compelled to comment on this:

which by the way god isn't just, he is moral.

Isn't it incredibly presumptuous to say that you know anything about the true nature of god?

[FaustWolf]

Wasn't Luther being pissed off at the sale of indulgences the main idea of the 95 theses? Or was that just one of the theses? (Oh wait, ninja'd by Krispin on that one I guess)

Transubstantiation is kinda fun. Technically makes us Catholics cannibals, doesn't it? The Spanish conquistadores came over to the New World, saw people being sacrificed, and said what the hell? And then the native peoples saw the eucharist, and said what the hell? True story, I think -- I remember reading somewhere that the people of Peru took Catholics for vampiahs.

[KebreI]

Daniel he might have used a word wrong and exaggerated the issue but even still he holds true. If wars didn't start for religion and it was a just a grab for slaves or territory. You said so yourself religion was a co-conspirator, the gasoline on a fire. I am not a historian, I deal in logic and mathematics, but even I know that the clash of beliefs, not just religion, is on of the most common factors in war/conflict.

[ZealKnight]

I didn't really want to get involved in this thread except to put in my two cents which I already did earlier, but I feel compelled to comment on this:

which by the way god isn't just, he is moral.

Isn't it incredibly presumptuous to say that you know anything about the true nature of god?

God himself of course.

[Daniel Krispin]

Wasn't Luther being pissed off at the sale of indulgences the main idea of the 95 theses? Or was that just one of the theses? (Oh wait, ninja'd by Krispin on that one I guess)

Transubstantiation is kinda fun. Technically makes us Catholics cannibals, doesn't it? The Spanish conquistadores came over to the New World, saw people being sacrificed, and said what the hell? And then the native peoples saw the eucharist, and said what the hell? True story, I think -- I remember reading somewhere that the people of Peru took Catholics for vampiahs.

Oh, I'd believe it. The Romans weren't too happy with them either. That much I know from reading Tactitus. Apparently, though it was obvious to him that they didn't start the great fire of Rome, they nonetheless deserved their fate of being tortured and killed. Supposedly because they were life-haters. Hmm...

And yeah, Kebrel, probably exaggurated too much - I do do that - but thinking back, that's probably what should be gleaned out of what I said. If anything we can term it one of the co-conspirators.

[teaflower]

... wow. Fast moving topic.

Um... I don't think much of religion. I know that a lot of people warp the teachings of their religion to their own usage (thou shalt not kill... unless thine enemy doth be a heathen. then shoot them up.), but... religion just freaks me out. I don't get into it much. Believe what you want to believe, so long as you let me do the same.

Personally, I believe that there is some being higher than this life, but I don't know what or why. I don't know what happens after this life, and I'd rather not know. No fun in knowing what's coming to me, eh?

[chrono eric]

God himself of course.

No, I meant that it is impossible to know whether or not god is benevolent and just or malevolent, just as it is impossible to obtain any objective certainty that god exists in the first place. Often I hear people of western religious faith wrestling with the concept of "god works in mysterious ways". They try to rationalize why a just god would allow a mother of three and a devout Christian to die with her children in a highway car crash while he lets a pedophile and murderer get away with his crimes. They say "oh well, god just works in mysterious ways and it would be presumptious for me to doubt him". Well, they overlook that it is presumptuous to assume that god even gives a damn about them or about the human race in the first place. Often they fall back on the concept that this life doesn't matter, and what really matters is that ones actions will be judged by god in the afterlife. But it strikes me as incredibly anthropocentric to even consider that a divine being that created this unimaginably vast universe would even be concerned with the life and death of individual humans, much less be benevolent towards us.

It is a personal decision of mine to never trust anyone in life that tells me that they speak for god. Have you seen that douchebag who claims he is the reincarnation of Jesus? Man, I forget his name. Maybe I'll google it in a bit.

[justin3009]

I'm really not for ANY religion.  People believe in this "god" that supposedly created the world.  Yet if you think about the obvious things, let's see...Diseases, illnesses, corruption, etc etc...I suppose that was ALL part of his PLAN as well?  I just think every religion is pointless and doesn't do any help to the world, in fact, most of the time I see religious people they act arrogant beyond belief because they believe in someone that could be completely made up.  Hell, I don't know if it's just where I live or everywhere, but apparently Christians and people who don't have a religion have separate cemetery rules?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jk6ILZAaAMI - This is the perfect video to show for this.

[ZeaLitY]

Z, Fou is right that you won't change your views because it is actually a psychological thing that no amount of arguing will ever change anyone's believes or opinions.

I was religious, once. It took time, but I read and researched my own experience, acknowledged contradictions, inanities, etc. and concluded, as many others have, that God almost certainly doesn't exist.

Ooo, I know this too. That's because the only way to sway one's opinion or beliefs is with more evidence of your belief than they have of theirs. But that's not arguing. THANK YOU AP PSYCH!

I got a 5 on the AP Psychology test, thank you very much.

[BROJ]

Because I think that given the scientific evidence, it is overwhelmingly likely that God does not exist.

I'm not targeting you ZeaLity, but rather using this non-contextual snipet to juxtaposition my thoughts on the matter.

Building empirical evidence against a supernatural entity is moot. I think it's fair to reject the existence of such a being, but one can't build a case against it -- it can't be done. Put simply, there's much more productive things to do.

[chrono eric]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jk6ILZAaAMI - This is the perfect video to show for this.

ALL HAIL THE JUG OF MILK! His Holy Dairyness shall smite all nonbelievers!


Seriously though, he goes from a very good argument that the answering of prayer is an illusion to the conclusion that therefore god itself is also an illusion - which is a logical fallacy. Both the Christians from my earlier example and this atheist seem to ignore the possibility that a god could exist that just doesn't give a damn about whether we live bountifully or die horrible deaths. A viewpoint that I find particularly appealing, since I am thoroughly disgusted by anthropocentrism on many levels.

It is easy to demonstrate the ineffectiveness of prayer, but it is another thing to attempt to prove or disprove the existence of god. In light of that, this guy seems to have made this video with the sole purpose of pissing Christians off in mind.

[FouCapitan]

There's a lot of assuming and generalizing in your views, and it's painfully obvious that no amount of respectful conversation will change them.  (See chart below)

Go fuck off. You came out with guns blazing against "zealous" atheists and apparently cannot believe that the phrase "religious war" was invented because yes, Virginia, religion has facilitated atrocities. You are part of the fucking problem. Educate yourself.

Look Z, I don't want this discussion to lead to any personal animosity between us.  My statement quoted was merely pointing out that neither of us will change over this argument, no matter what opinions are stated.  With that said, the argument becomes pointless, and only leads to throwing out insults at one another and breeding unneeded anger, which your "Go fuck off." reply really drove home, and quite frankly makes me think less of you as a person, which I didn't want this discussion to do.

The entire point I'm trying to make here is that the worst things about beliefs is the hatred that individuals throw into it.  Whether it's Muslims hating Jews, Christians hating Muslims, or Atheists hating Christians, it's all despicable behavior.  I respect your beliefs for one obvious reason that anyone with good sense can agree with.  We don't know what's right or wrong in religious respects.  There's no proof of anything, just beliefs.  There's no proof of God, there's no proof of Bhudda, nothing.  In all fairness I could be wrong just as much as anyone else in what they choose to believe, and that is the ultimate failure in choosing to follow one religion.

I believe there is a greater force in this world beyond our understanding, and I call it God.  That's all.  I don't know any concrete characteristics of Him, I just know of words and scriptures that others have left behind.  Some of them make a lot of sense, like don't kill people, don't cheat on your wife, don't steal stuff from others, love your fellow man, follow the laws of the land, and numerous others I haven't the time or patience to list.

Bottom line, I'm sorry if I insulted you Z, and let's try and keep this discussion open minded and civil.  I don't rape murder and pillage in the name of God, so please don't treat me like I'm part of the worst of religious peoples.

[nightmare975]

Let's remember one thing shall we?

Religion = hate.

Simple. For example, I am a Christian, you are a Jew, Muslim, Atheist, Christian that doesn't follow my way of Christianity, etc. You automatically suck because you aren't following my form of religion and will go to hell.I am not like this, I'm just showing an example of how religion chats end up.

For your information, I believe in God, because I cannot fathom bacteria becoming a monkey. Hell, God makes more sense than half the shit scientists cough out each and every day. Do I force my beliefs on someone? No. I am not a radical. I practice my religion in my own home, and I keep it there.

Now, someone lock this thread before everyone starts killing one another. Please.

And one last thing, first person to scoff at my beliefs, go fuck yourself you radical. The world needs less of you.

[placidchap]

evilution = religion
evolution = science

[chrono eric]

For your information, I believe in God, because I cannot fathom bacteria becoming a monkey.

I'm sorry nightmare, I respect your position fully, but I don't think that is a very good reason to believe in god. Just because you cannot fathom something (despite the whole of observable evidence supporting it) is not a good enough reason to throw your arms up and say "God did it". My point is that whenever someone supports theology over science when they are talking about something that science can observe - theology loses. Every time. If someone believes in god, they should do it for theological reasons, not for what they perceive as a scientific reason.