Chrono Chastity

[Mr Bekkler]

you bring up a better point. there IS a lot we don't know about magil AND guile. maybe they were rapists.

but really, the thread is about fantasy characters and whether they've experienced the act of intercourse, when the closest thing to sex mentioned in the game is married couples talking about whether they're having kids. it's my opinion that if it were a real world, most of them would not be virgins. simply because sex is something people do. and often.

magus is evil so when it comes to sex, either it's rape or it's not happening. that's just my opinion. magil and guile are not intended to be targets, because i honestly don't think it would hurt either of their characters. no more than would the fact that magus was a killer. a murderer.

i've known people who have been raped. i've known people who have been murdered. the ones who were raped are still here. most of them learn eventually that things can be good. the point is they're alive. it's just as scary, but i'd say a murderer is worse than a rapist in terms of name-calling. you say i am calling guile and magil rapists? i disagree. i call them guilty souls, formerly corrupted by power. whatever that corruption manifested itself as. i'm not saying you're wrong for your opinion, but you know he's a killer, is being a rapist really that much worse? at most, they're equally terrible.

[FouCapitan]

i'm not saying you're wrong for your opinion, but you know he's a killer, is being a rapist really that much worse? at most, they're equally terrible.

I personally feel on a general basis that rape is worse than murder.  Not so much in the outcome, but in the intent and the fact that extenuating circumstances tend to apply more towards murder than rape.  True some such as temporary insanity can attribute to both equally, but you'd never hear of anyone raping someone in self defense, or on accident.  While Magus' actions fell into none of those categories, it's apparent that his murders were done in certain circumstances.  Those being defending against attackers, achieving the conquering goals of his army, and probably in raising himself to power as well.  Rape accomplishes none of those goals, therefore I still do not attribute his character to one who would commit such acts.

[Lord J Esq]

"Killing" and "murder" are not the same thing. Killing in self-defense is not murder. The "murder" you're using for comparison with rape is a straw man.

[Mr Bekkler]

the murder i'm using for comparison is cyrus.

and there IS a difference between killing and murdering.

magus did both.

i understand you guys don't agree with me. but there's not much evidence one way or the other. we may as well be debating the existence of god.

[Lord J Esq]

I was talking to FouCapitan, not you.

[mav]

Murder and killing aside, not all murderers are rapists, and that's that. I understand why you're making the connection, addiesin, but I think we're both missing certain character elements that are relevant to whether Magus would ever commit rape. To me Cyrus's murder was something that Magus seemed extremely disconnected with. Rape is an extremely personal thing, for both the rapist and the victim. Cyrus's murder was an after-battle act; it was a way to secure power (by giving Ozzie this unbearable and inherently evil spectacle) and a way to discourage both Glenn and any other opponents Magus had.

[Mr Bekkler]

I was talking to FouCapitan, not you.

my bad.

not all murderers are rapists, and that's that.

not all rectangles are squares but all squares are rectangles. i know. you know

Cyrus's murder was a way to secure power and a way to discourage other opponents .

so is rape.

it's still not worth debating this long. we see the character differently. i think that's cool. the whole game is able to be interpreted a bunch of ways, and that was kinda the point.

It's all an academic discussion, however, because canonically there's no chance of it whatsoever. History has to be highly sterilized in order to avoid drawing attention to itself in the context of an adventure story like Chrono Trigger. No character who would become playable would ever have been implied to be a rapist in a sanitary game like this.

emphasis quote. in game, no he could not rape anyone. impossible. because we had censorship. hell, there's not even blood in the battles, the dead badguys just disintegrate and diffuse into the air.

[mav]

Cyrus's murder was a way to secure power and a way to discourage other opponents .

so is rape.

I guess this is where our disagreement stems from--I don't see rape as a way to secure power. It's a form of dominance, yes, but I see Cyrus's murder as a way for Magus to show his superiority towards Ozzie. I don't think Magus could show that through rape. By killing Cyrus he proved that he could be a ruthless leader and that he was truly the demagogue the Mystics needed.

[neo-fusion]

Well usually after someone wins a war soldiers go through raping citizens... at least that's what happenned when japan conquered China.

So that kinda raises a question.

Did the Porreans do anything to the guardians?

[Mr Bekkler]

in the same world we're talking about, where sex is prevalent in the chronoverse, yes. the porreans did rape guardians. however, not ALL the porreans raped people. and not ALL the guardians got raped. some just got killed.

Cyrus's murder was a way to secure power and a way to discourage other opponents .

so is rape.

I guess this is where our disagreement stems from--I don't see rape as a way to secure power. It's a form of dominance, yes, but I see Cyrus's murder as a way for Magus to show his superiority towards Ozzie. I don't think Magus could show that through rape. By killing Cyrus he proved that he could be a ruthless leader and that he was truly the demagogue the Mystics needed.

very true. we just don't know what happened behind closed doors. while you bring up an interesting point that magus would look up to ozzie, and feel like he has to prove himself (which makes sense if you consider ozzie to be magus's father figure, so says freud), i had'nt thought about it like that and rather found magus and ozzie to see each other as equals, or at least equally respected/feared. i'd picture, before crono&co got there, that 600ad magus' castle looked similar to jabba the hut's lair, in that there would be prisoners of war, scantily clad and fearing for life, as well as people on his side, scantily clad and sitting around. why? because it's what i've seen and jabba and ozzie are both big fat reptilian baddies. that would make magus boba fett though. 

[mav]

Right, right. Now, I don't mean for this topic to become an expose on the motivations and life of Magus, but I do think we should go ahead an examine Magus as a character.

I believe that there was some growth and torment within Magus and Ozzie's relationship: obviously when Magus was a little kid, Ozzie may not have respected him or hold to such high esteem, but in time the two probably became "equals" and had mutual respect for one another. Eventually Magus came to surpass Ozzie in many ways and Cyrus's death probably sealed the deal: Ozzie couldn't or wouldn't kill the man, but Magus did. And that is what made Magus the sort of spiritual leader of the Mystics, while Ozzie took on the rank of a military leader.

Now, what was the castle like? I have no idea. I too can see Ozzie reflecting Jabba, but I have no idea how Magus would hold his castle. I suppose it'd be a derelict shrine of sorts...


And as far as Porre is concerned, I don't know what to think. I guess we would need to examine the manner in which they overtook Guardia--whether it was a Viking-like ransacking, or if it was more of a war tied in with other militaristic, political, and social upheavals--and knowing the manner of their overtaking could then be paralleled to how sex and rape played a part in real-world wars.

[Zephira]

I'm assuming Ozzie would treat Magus the same as all his other prisoners when he first found the boy. When Magus becomes the leader of the Mystics, that is definitely not a tradition he would want to keep around.
It could go one of two ways, really. Magus could carry out his reign the same way he was raised and go on to rape, plunder and pillage. Or he would stamp that behaviour out of the Mystics as soon as he comes into power. Seeing as how he his one goal drives everything he does in the Middle Ages, he probably wouldn't give in to distractions like that.

[FouCapitan]

The Porre army did horrible things to Kid.  I've seen the doujin.  Those're canon right?

[Zephira]

If you're going by literal canon and what's presented in game, everyone in the whole world (except Queen Leene, her husband, Marle's parents, Crono's Mom, Lucca's parents, Magus' parents, and Ayla) is a virgin. Aside from that, it's up to you. You can take doujin and fanfiction as canon if you want

[Mr Bekkler]

I'm assuming Ozzie would treat Magus the same as all his other prisoners when he first found the boy. When Magus becomes the leader of the Mystics, that is definitely not a tradition he would want to keep around.
It could go one of two ways, really. Magus could carry out his reign the same way he was raised and go on to rape, plunder and pillage. Or he would stamp that behaviour out of the Mystics as soon as he comes into power. Seeing as how he his one goal drives everything he does in the Middle Ages, he probably wouldn't give in to distractions like that.

ah yes, the town drunk had two sons. he raised them equally, and he died of his own alcohol abuse. one never touches a drop of alcohol his entire life, says he learned not to from his dad. the other becomes the father, essentially by becoming a drunk and eventually killing himself off, but before that he says he learned to drink from his dad.

this raises several questions that don't matter, like what about the king and queen zeal? what about schala and the gurus? they don't exist for this metaphor to work, the father is just ozzie.

the REAL question here: which son is magus?