Dream Devourer ending links Magus to Guile?

[mav]

Aye, Guile's back story is just too vague, but whether it's a class or a club, all that matters is that Guile presumably surpassed all the others in both scenarios

If he is amnesiac Magus, shouldn't he have forgotten how to fly? Unless it comes naturally.

I'd expect that it's like running or walking: even when you lose your memories, you still know how to run or walk. Those forms of movement are innate to us as people--he didn't lose his ability to perform magic either. Although he may have forgotten certain spells, it's highly possible that because he retained his ability to perform magic, he retained his innate ability to float: he doesn't even have to think about it, it just happens.

But like I said earlier, we're retrofitting certain elements of Guile into Magus. If Guile really was developed as a separate character from Magus, then there's a reason for everything: a reason for his appearance, a reason for why he floats, and a reason for why he's such a phenomenal magician. I just feel that we need to prove that Magus is Guile, not that Guile is Magus.

[Metal Gear Flaccid]

I think this is what everybody is hoping for... His loss of memory helps the thoery along, so... maybe... (God Willing)

[V_Translanka]

I think that it makes for the connection to Magil more plausible than it does to Guile, who has been stated IS NOT Magus...They'd have to retcon it in Chrono Cross itself before I began to believe in it...

[Mr Bekkler]

Perhaps Magus IS NOT Guile because of the end of Cross? If none of it happened, then Magus was not Guile.

But with that logic Magus=Guile until you finish the game, then he's rebooted back to Magus, with Guile never having existed.


I mean, why is it such a bad thing to connect the two games like that?

[mav]

Because it's a cop-out. They took a dynamic character, gave him a great story, and then ripped out his memories in their entirety just to substitute in a less impressive, dull character.

[Dark Serge]

It's not that, it began in the production of Chrono Cross. They made the mistake there, when they removed Magus from the game due to an overload of characters that weren't connected to the story. Right now they're just trying to correct it by making it look like Magus became Guile at the end of CT.

Actually, I don't see it as a mistake, as I never really liked Magus at all, and I love playing with all of the 40+ characters in CC, loads of variaton. It's just that, most people loved Magus, and are now shocked how Square is trying to link him with Guile.

I can understand that viewpoint, but yeah.

[mav]

I see where you're coming from and it's fine. I just feel that Guile was a completely separate character from Magus, and now they're retconning to fit Magus back in. Guile is Magus-lite: he might have some of the same taste, but he can't pass as the same thing.

Whatever though, whether I like the theory or not, I do want to analyze both characters to the point where it's possible for 'em to be the same person.

[V_Translanka]

Perhaps Magus IS NOT Guile because of the end of Cross? If none of it happened, then Magus was not Guile.

But with that logic Magus=Guile until you finish the game, then he's rebooted back to Magus, with Guile never having existed.


I mean, why is it such a bad thing to connect the two games like that?

I don't understand what you mean...What part of the end of Cross would change who Guile or Magus is...?

[Dark Serge]

Because supposedly after Cross he would get his memories back... But I don't know what that argument is based on, and I don't support it myself either.

[Mr Bekkler]

it's just based on the idea that the merged timeline created at the end of cross would cancel everything that happens in that game. not a whole lot to back it up.

[Dark Serge]

it's just based on the idea that the merged timeline created at the end of cross would cancel everything that happens in that game. not a whole lot to back it up.

And that in itself is another idea from which I don't know where people got it. It's never stated that the unified timeline cancels all the events in CC. In fact, it would be ridicilous. It was merely stated that the dimensions were merged and Serge supposedly lost his memories. But he didn't.

[Mr Bekkler]

yeah. it's just kinda cool to think about. a bit more back-to-the-future-ish. except instead of getting his parents together so he doesnt disappear, he's fighting lavos in the darkness beyond time. veeeeeery similar, dontcha know?

[leena_zeal]

It's never stated that the unified timeline cancels all the events in CC. In fact, it would be ridicilous. It was merely stated that the dimensions were merged and Serge supposedly lost his memories. But he didn't.

What do you mean with "he didn't"? Serge doesn't loose his memories??
I thought time was sorta rewinded after the game finishes so that things start over right at the point where Leena and Serge are on the beach.

But I don't think that would affect Guile's memories in any way. It's just a couple of days that ceased to exist. But Guile had already lost his memories by then

[V_Translanka]

I think with Serge's lost memories it's like Magus' in that he seems to remember something, but it's like waking up from a dream...fading memories...

Though it's impossible to tell with someone who doesn't get much in terms of dialog...

[Dark Serge]

It's never stated that the unified timeline cancels all the events in CC. In fact, it would be ridicilous. It was merely stated that the dimensions were merged and Serge supposedly lost his memories. But he didn't.

What do you mean with "he didn't"? Serge doesn't loose his memories??
I thought time was sorta rewinded after the game finishes so that things start over right at the point where Leena and Serge are on the beach.

But I don't think that would affect Guile's memories in any way. It's just a couple of days that ceased to exist. But Guile had already lost his memories by then

I thought that too, at first. But from Leena's dialogue one can indicate that Serge is asking her about Terra Tower and FATE, two terms which he should already have forgotten.

It was different with Magus though. Magus didn't know a single thing anymore, even his name. He just knew he needed to do something. Serge actually seems to remember some very specific things.

Then again, he might have forgotten after a while. Cross's ending is so vague that it's impossible to say. But I'd like to think he didn't.