Recycling bad guys...

[FouCapitan]

I'd like to take a moment to talk about what was one of the few things that actually bothered me about Chrono Cross' plot (besides the oft depressing or environmentally preachy moments).

The villains.  While good and well done in their own right, there was not a single true enemy in the game with any story relevance that didn't have origins from an enemy in Chrono Trigger.

Think about it.

Lynx and FATE are both remnants of Mother Brain from Geno Dome.

The Porre Army was retconned to be definitely a product of Dalton.

The dragons were the creations of an alternate dimension's Reptite future population.

The Time Devourer was Lavos reincarnated from the Darkness Beyond Time.

The only enemies that can even be considered original are the Acacia Dragoons, who turn out aren't even your real enemies in the game.

Here's hoping that if there ever is a fourth installment to the Chronoverse, it will feature some stand alone new villains.

I guess the dwarfs can count as original villains, but they're so damn annoying I'm gonna choose to ignore their existence.

[Thought]

I guess the dwarfs can count as original villains, but they're so damn annoying I'm gonna choose to ignore their existence.

Worlds to live by.

But you forgot Belthasar. He could qualify as a villain (if he engineered everything, he is responsible for things like Kid being poisoned, Wazuki becoming Lynx, the oppresion of the demihumans, etc). Also taken from CT, but he's definately given a new twist.

But I am curious; is there really anything to analyze or discuss with this issue?

[Chrono'99]

It's the sequel to CT, so obviously it has lots of elements that have their origins in CT.

[FouCapitan]

I guess the dwarfs can count as original villains, but they're so damn annoying I'm gonna choose to ignore their existence.

Worlds to live by.

But you forgot Belthasar. He could qualify as a villain (if he engineered everything, he is responsible for things like Kid being poisoned, Wazuki becoming Lynx, the oppresion of the demihumans, etc). Also taken from CT, but he's definately given a new twist.

But I am curious; is there really anything to analyze or discuss with this issue?

I was kind of hoping to be enlightened with some major antagonist that I skimmed over with no relation to the previous title.  Belthasar is a new twist, but in the end his meddling causes things to work out with the DoT & Schala.  So despite his scheming, I can't really count him as a villain, since his work ultimately saves all of time itself.

[chrono eric]

And I can't help but think that Belthasar in all his genius would have calculated the chance of success versus the chance of failure, and then decided that the necessary evil of splitting the dimensions and affecting the lives of countless individuals would be worth the ultimate goal of destroying the Time Devourer and freeing Schala.

If the chance of failure was significantly high, I don't think that Belthasar would have gone through with it. I don't think it is in the nature of his character to just be all "well this is what I want so I'm going to just play God and screw all of you over for a bit".

[ryu planeswalker]

Well its not as if Belthasar really had much of a choice, if left the time devourer would have destroyed everything eventually.

[Acacia Sgt]

An 'end justify the means' situation that's perfectly valid. As such, after what he did and what happened thanks to him, I don't consider him a villain.

[LavosFan]

huh? one of the most recurrent complaints about Cross is its deviation from the chrono trigger world and characters, or so I've heard. And the few things that do link CC with CT also get criticized?

So if I shoot and miss, I lose, and if I shoot and hit, I lose aswell. Is there a way for CC to ever win?

[Chrono'99]

I don't think it is in the nature of his character to just be all "well this is what I want so I'm going to just play God and screw all of you over for a bit".

Belthasar:
   Well, that research led to
   the creation of Chronopolis
   and to the Time Crash...
   You might think I really
   blew it, but perhaps it
   was really my finest hour!
   Ho-ho-hoh...

This quote seems to imply otherwise. He's laughing at the Time Crash and Polis War :/

[Acacia Sgt]

Or is it? It could be laughing since his plan was working as planned. After all, the Time Crash was a very important step.

[Thought]

The ends justify the means? Really?

Consider Magneto. His end goal is to create world where mutants are safe and can live at peace. His means are to erradicate all non-mutants.

Consider Big Brother from 1984. The end goal is to create a stable world order, free from chaos. The means is to control the lives of every human on the planet.

Consider the Borg from Star Trek. Their end goal is to reach the height of technological and biological life. Their means is to assimilate anything and everything different than themselves.

No, the ends do not justify the means. Indeed, improper means can only lead to an improper end.

Consider, at the end of CC, what Schala tells us:

The '"eggs"' that we call planets...
And the innumerable '"spermatozoa"'
which gather around these
that we call life-forms...
    
When one of those countless seeds
inseminates a planet,
a new universe is born.
  
But until that occurs,
hundreds of millions of years will pass,
and innumerable life-forms will be born,
then die...

That is the be-all and end-all.
Everything exists for that one moment.
All so that the universe can evolve
into the next dimension...

The TD was evolving into the next dimension (admittedly, a dimension in which it could consume the old, like a new born plant consuming the seed it was contained in for food). It was the "be-all and end-all" of everything. All of existence had led up to that one point. And Belthasar stopped it.

[Acacia Sgt]

Was the TD really aiming for that?

[Thought]

The TD? Dunno, but if we believe that ending narative, the universe was aiming for the TD.

EDIT: I suppose it would be good for me to state that I'm largely playing the devil's advocate. I don't think B is a villain, but he's terribly close to one.

[Acacia Sgt]

The TD? Dunno, but if we believe that ending narative, the universe was aiming for the TD.

EDIT: I suppose it would be good for me to state that I'm largely playing the devil's advocate. I don't think B is a villain, but he's terribly close to one.

I think it's more like the TD was accelerating it. Besides, doesn't the Time Devourer consuming all space/time means that no matter where or when you are in it, you aren't safe from it? Probably not the same case as in the one told in the ending.

[Delta Dragon]

Unless I missed something, which wouldn't surprise me in the slightest so correct me if I'm wrong, but at least by the looks of it the Time devourer was a combination of all the dragons, but if they're reptites then how is the time devourer a reincarnated Lavos?