The Nature of Lavos

[Zedsreturn]

Since Lavos is the accumulation of genetic data, the spawn of that lavos should contain the genetic data of the previous Lavos.

So since Lavos has the accumulation of DNA of a previous Lavos, isn't it likely that the form you fight after the shell is the accumulation of the DNA of the previous Lavos, while the final form is the developing DNA gathered on earth. It's clear that the final form is the accumulation of all of Earth's DNA, as pointed out by the party, but no mention of this is made by the party fighting the second form.

The final form does resemble the second form somewhat, so it's plausible to think that it is a combined version of the DNA on earth and the previous DNA gathered. So, the shell acts as its vessel and large scale weapon, while the second form acts as a sort of womb for the developing lavos core.

So basically, since Lavos acts as a three part system, it seems like you fight three different entities rather than just three forms of the same being.

So this is my theory. Since the game seems to suggest that the second and final form are separate entities, it is likely that the second form is the pinnacle of DNA harvesting of the previous planet. When that being was created on the previous planet, The womb (the equivalent to the current second form) dies, allowing the departure of the new being.

This Lavos would then seperate itself several times asexually, each one being a shadow of the unseparated form (explaining their absence in the lavos spawn). The new lavos would each grow a lavos shell, develop until a certain point, and then head to a new planet. So Death Peak, instead of being Lavos after creating its offspring, is really just the shell and womb, while the core exited, seperated, and became the Lavos spawn you fight on Death Peak.

[Lakonthegreat]

But then the issue of the Lavos Spawn is raised. See, once the shell dies on those spawn, the spawn itself dies. You don't have to go inside and destroy another, still developing being. So if anything, I believe that this process would go in reverse.

All that aside, another thread has suggested that the shell is a COMPLETELY separate creature from the actual Lavos Core. More of a vessel that takes on a life of its own. I don't know whether these spawn develop an actual sentient entity like Lavos has, because it is possible that the shell is a completely separate creature entirely and simply making new shells, as opposed to them actually having anything in them.

[xcalibur]

interesting thread..

as a sidenote - on the day of lavos 1999 AD, when lavos shoots up spikes to destroy the planet, one of the spikes lands on himself!

about 26 seconds in...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IFygZVtYGYM

youd think that a being powerful enough to destroy the planet would manage to not make a fool of itself.

[Lakonthegreat]

Well naturally just going berserk and firing so many projectiles at once , there's going to be some of it that could potentially hit you. I've always thought the reason it didn't hurt him was because he's got some sort of energy shield or magic shield around him. Even if he did hit himself, his shell has got to have TOOOOONS of HP, and take even less damage than the Spawn's shell. So with those spikes only doing about 500 HP dmg per party member at low levels with base armor, he probably wouldn't even feel it.

[xcalibur]

Well naturally just going berserk and firing so many projectiles at once , there's going to be some of it that could potentially hit you. I've always thought the reason it didn't hurt him was because he's got some sort of energy shield or magic shield around him. Even if he did hit himself, his shell has got to have TOOOOONS of HP, and take even less damage than the Spawn's shell. So with those spikes only doing about 500 HP dmg per party member at low levels with base armor, he probably wouldn't even feel it.

lol yeah, youre right. it was just a silly non-sequitur that i couldnt help noticing. but i agree.



anyway, back to the topic, the theory is pretty good, but the shell does seem more like a vessel. heres what i posted in another thread:

all 3 forms of lavos are lavos to some extent. but the lavos core is the essence of lavos - it is the culmination of genetic material into the best possible form that lavos could create for itself. that would explain why the central bit (and the inner form) are humanoid - humans are the most dominant and successful species on the planet, so lavos would be greatly (but not entirely) influenced by humans.

id also argue that lavos was the humanoid central bit, but he transferred his "essence" or mind into the right bit as a deceptive defense.

as far as the origin of lavos, who knows. the outer shell would probably be useful in space travel and burrowing into planets, but everything else is very open-ended.

[-LzR-]

Another crazy bump, shameless one.

The second form does have some similarities with Earth's species IMO.
Looks like reptites, having Dactyl's hand and stuff.

[Iyellalot]

Alright, this has kinda bugged me. We know from the Lavos Spawn in the first game that Lavos is capable of reproducing. Lavos can also apparently fuse with another powerful individual to create an entirely new being, as evidenced by the Time Devourer.

Assuming that other planets have individuals with magic similar to Schala's, does that mean that there could be multiple different entities similar to the Time Devourer?

The Time Devourer could have destroyed all of existence. If there could theoretically be multiple Time Devourers, could that mean that reality as we know it is always on the brink of destruction?

[-LzR-]

I think the whole Time Devourer thing was a really rare happening which has never happened before.
Otherwise it would mean that there were heroes like Crono in every planet with Lavos's species.

[idioticidioms]

Not necessarily, LzR. You have to take into account the probability of all the pieces falling into place such as they did during the course of CT.

For the Time Devourer to come into being, it definitely needs to merge with a being like Schala, to be sure. But, since it had time to do that before even being defeated by Crono, it would stand to reason that a Lavos Spawn would still have to be killed after merging with such a being. And, if by chance, Lavos encountered Schala after his defeat, somewhere in the depths of.. whatever, it would be made more difficult because you would then have to assume that a Lavos Spawn would have to be killed first and then merge with such a being. The latter has way more holes, but it doesn't have the glaringly obvious hole that the former does: There is no sign of Schala anywhere when you fight and kill Lavos in CT.

Just because the Time Devourer abomination can happen more than once, is no indication that there are heroes like crono on every planet, nor people like schala.

Obviously, Lavos came from another planet before encountering Earth, which means he had to have been successful at least once.

[Kodokami]

I get the impression that the space-time continuum is relative to each dimension in the Chrono series. However, the DBT is supposed to be a place where all discarded timelines go, so I can't be sure. Another interesting fact is that only one Time Devourer exists in CC, despite there being two dimensions.

[idioticidioms]

Well, at the point it became the time devourer, it became multi-dimensional. Much like how the original Lavos in CT could travel through time, the Time Devourer was able to travel between dimensions, if not actually be in more than one dimension at the same time, which would make sense because through killing the time devourer in one dimension, you effectively kill it in all dimensions; which makes it a much bigger threat than first perceived and definitely a threat needing to be taken out.

[-LzR-]

Well this is kinda hard subject for me since I don't know much about it since I have only played the SNES version.

[Xenterex]

Well on one hand, if you consider the Time Devourer to be capable of destroying all of existence in its entirety, and in a universe set up where potentially anything can happen in any number of variable ways across an infinite amount of dimensions, that this being could be created in an number of iterations, and have an instance of just 1 being successful, meaning the complete obliteration of all time/existence in that universe.

... and that makes for a really lame story.  So yea, its more likely the Time Devourer is a rare, even exclusive instance.  One of the factors I've considered in this is that perhaps a) Lavoid being don't inherently have temporal abilities b) that the range of effect of a Time Devourer is actually only relative to the time/space of a given planet.  c) not all planets visited by Lavoids have "an Entity".

Let's say the despite all of Lavos' inherent powers upon arrive on the planet, one of them is not the ability to alter time.  In his consumption of DNA and power, Lavos can in effect, drain the Entity of that planet.  In draining the Entity, Lavos then gains the ability to either manipulate time, or at least manipulate time relative to that given Entity.  If that's the case, it supports more of the exclusiveness of the creation of a Dream Devourer being.

On the other hand, if you consider that all of the elements that created a dream devourer (according to "series canon") pretty much all originate around Lavos in the first place, it lends itself to a greater likely hood of multiple Time Devourers existing.  In which case, they're either all relative in their effective threat range, or yea, all existence is constantly on the brink or it is already effectively destroyed.  Kinda puts a damper on continuing a game/story series that way :/

[Mr Bekkler]

Xenterex, I like the way you think.

I think the key to the Dream Devourer is answer C. though all points you make are pretty good ones.

Not all planets visited by Lavoids have "an Entity".

The guiding Entity of the planet has the ability to create gates and get people to perform tasks for it, Lavos has been absorbing power from it for 65mil years, I think that's where it gets whatever temporal abilities it has, which becomes the biggest factor in its ability to retain power and consciousness in the temporal sphere even after dying in the physical realm. Schala was probably not much more than a battery attachment to have something to feed on while in the DBT.

And the likelihood of the term "universe" (as in it will destroy the entire "universe")being overstated or just overgeneralized has already been brought up, but not thoroughly discussed. I see this as the most probable scenario, mostly because the multiverse is supposed to include anything that could happen, if there could be more than one TD, there would have been already and since the universe exists, that obviously didn't happen.

Personally I think the developers were more concentrated on "topping" Lavos than on the implications the existence of the TD has on its offspring.

[alfadorredux]

Personally I think the developers were more concentrated on "topping" Lavos than on the implications the existence of the TD has on its offspring.

You have now produced a mental image of Lavos smothered in whipped cream with cherries on the tips of its spikes.

Don't do that.