Fuck Buddhism

[ZeaLitY]

I frequent Digg and reddit, and usually when religious idiocy comes up, it's properly vilified. Christianity, Islam, Judaism, and Hinduism are treated correctly as irrational crap. However, when Buddhism comes up, an army of apologists comes out of the woodwork and reveal ugly double standards. I guess it's not surprising, since it's hip and cool like veganism to espouse certain Buddhist "wisdom" or admire people like the Dalai Lama, who despite some humanistic leanings still thinks he's the 14th reincarnation of the same Buddhist jackass, found in childhood by a comically bizarre search undertaken after each lama's death.

Anyway, these hypocritical people seem to take two positions in particular:

1. "Buddhism is not a religion."

Hahahaha...yes, they call it a "life philosophy" and a set of "teachings" that have been used as a religion by some people, but at heart are just pure words of wisdom. These same people, when they hear this from Christians saying that Jesus's teachings have been used as a religion and perverted, call Jesus an idiot anyway for his irrational beliefs. But Buddhism gets a free pass? Praytell, what's a religion?

1.a set of beliefs concerning the cause, nature, and purpose of the universe, esp. when considered as the creation of a superhuman agency or agencies, usually involving devotional and ritual observances, and often containing a moral code governing the conduct of human affairs.
2. a specific fundamental set of beliefs and practices generally agreed upon by a number of persons or sects: the Christian religion; the Buddhist religion.

1 a: the state of a religious <a nun in her 20th year of religion> b  (1): the service and worship of God or the supernatural  (2): commitment or devotion to religious faith or observance2: a personal set or institutionalized system of religious attitudes, beliefs, and practices

Buddhism is:

• A set of beliefs - Life is a cycle of suffering and rebirth, karma exists, desire causes suffering, etc. codified in several documents and traditions
• About the nature or cause of the universe - Reality is an illusion, the universe exists as a non-ending casual loop of tertiary factors, etc.
• Involving the supernatural - Karma again, the state of "Nirvana", reincarnation, deities and higher beings, animism, etc.
• With rituals and observances - Buddhist prayers, monasteries, meditation, ways of life, "abandon desire and live moderately," ethical codes, folk wisdom, etc.
• Agreed upon and practiced - For over two thousand years and currently by 364 million people.

Oops! Buddhism happens to be a religion packed with superstitious, ridiculous crap just like all the more popular ones to bash!


2. "Buddhism is a set of principles that hasn't caused war like Christianity / Islam / Judaism, and it also embraces science and isn't sexist and blah blah blah etc."

Really, now?

Anyone who even begins to allege that Buddhism hasn't been involved as the facilitator of war is utterly fucking ignorant of Asian history. Japan is a perfect case study in this. Like most Christian apologists, Buddhists will argue that Buddhism was simply "perverted" for use in war. Oh, give me a fucking break. Buddhism may not have had an ostentatious Pope to take the blame for ordering the crusades (of course, that was more a sly Byzantine request), but it's inseparable from its motivated effects. There are a flood of examples of Buddhist conflict, but to evoke Japan again, here's the Ikko-ikki: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ikk%C5%8D-ikki

Then comes the sexism argument, which is utterly laughable. Notice something about seeing Buddhist monasteries you see on TV? Yeah, they're pretty much all male. Perhaps the fairer sex was smart enough not to buy into bullshit religion? No, it's just time-honored sexual discrimination. Buddhism.about.com is at least honest about this, so you can go educate yourself there: http://buddhism.about.com/od/becomingabuddhist/a/sexism.htm

Then comes science. Well, we saw how much that worked out, didn't we? When you have a religion that teaches to abandon desire, teaches that the world is a cycle of suffering and reality is an illusion, and helps facilitate severe fatalism and social immobility, can you really be said to support the courageous cause of science and humanity? Scratch that; when you have a religion full of irrational, unfounded generalizations about the nature of the universe and the human condition with imperatives and dogma, what is science even worth? Granted, there are a lot of other factors of Eastern culture responsible for the West's faster rise to material prosperity and scientific understanding, but the Buddhist religion is almost certainly a massive component, just as Christianity's anti-humanism and more overt cases of oppression stifled growth in European history for so long. But wait, this is the 21st century, so now that trendster pseudointellectuals and hipster new age Buddhists in the US like science, and since the Dalai Lama seems to be a pretty OK guy, two millennia of rot are suddenly whitewashed and A-OK.

Really though, the worse issue with Buddhism is the totally anti-humanistic stigma of desire. Humanity's natural curiosity and desire to learn, sprung from our precious intelligence, can be held as responsible for our upward spiral to a position of self-understanding in this universe. We are the cumulative result of thousands of years of exploration and setbacks, developing ever-faster after untold eons of darkness. When it comes to religion, Christianity at least has the dreaded prosperity gospel, which is keen on getting new toys and material joys. But Buddhism spares nothing in its condemnation of desire and curiosity. Have a dream, and sad that you haven't fulfilled it yet? Your desire is dirty. Get rid of the dream. "No problem, no solution."

What a complete cop-out. The Buddhists don't even give a chance for normal happiness; it's either "suffer endlessly" or "abandon all of it" and reach some kind of supernatural enlightenment. How incorrect! I suffered climbing a mountain trail once with a 3,000 foot gain in elevation, but I knew the thrill and joy of victory and appreciation of nature when I reached the peak. I suffered when I prepared a presentation on something I didn't want to deal with yesterday, and when I graduate, I'll know the thrill of having open opportunities in this world. I suffered tonight a little when I exercised, but I was left with a profound sense of self-confidence and achievement. I even suffered when I labored to make the Chrono Compendium encyclopedia, and it's been nothing but smiles now that it's done. Suffering and joy are part of the human condition; in winter, you shiver but enjoy the snow; in summer, you sweat but enjoy the beach. And there is no limit on how happy you can be if you try. How pretentious Buddhists must seem to people who've carved out a measure of happiness for themselves. "You're telling me this is nothing but a painful illusion?"

But getting back to the overall point, it's real hypocrisy to say that Buddhism is a set of nice teachings and not a religion. Buddhism is filled with commandments, rituals, and supernatural bullshit. It's easy for someone to take only the trendy good parts while ignoring its entire history of oppression or eschewing a life of impoverished meditation in a monastery somewhere. And make no mistake: it's still going on. Women are still being discriminated against en-masse in Buddhist societies, and Buddhist culture is still rooted in the East, condemning desire and human curiosity as dirty and locking people into believing absurdities.

~

Really, if there's anything you should feel about this, it's a sense of freedom. We're born into a world in which millennia-old traditions all vie for our hearts, minds, and service, replete with billions of followers who encourage our participation and centuries of argument from authority. But we're free from that. We're human. We're capable of seeking our own intelligence and finding our own way. Above all else, this was one of Bruce Lee's core messages: tradition confines; use what works for you, abandon what doesn't, learn from yourself and research your own experience. Bruce Lee didn't believe in God and didn't espouse any major religion. He got the fuck up and did what he wanted. If he had taken the Buddhist integration with martial arts too seriously, maybe he would have viewed his own desire to educate others and be a beacon of humanism as "dirty" and the initial pain of seeking his dream as a needless suffering, and maybe he would have just given up.

But he didn't.



So the next time someone venerates Buddhist "wisdom" that came from a bunch of incurious drones who decided it was easier in life to go sit on their asses for 50 years meditating in poverty in some monastery because they were too afraid to suffer a little to achieve their dreams, give them the doubt they deserve. Evaluate what you hear on its own merits, and live according to the merit of your own mind.

[ZeaLitY]

Addendum:



HURRRR, DESIRE IS BAD LOL

I'M FUKKEN ENLIGHTENED

[IAmSerge]

ima have to say that this is a form of trolling...

not the kind of trolling defined as nonsensical bullshit...

im talking about the kind of trolling that is used "to intentionaly incite flames or flaming"... not exactly sure where im quoting this from...

this is just a highly advanced and intellectual form of trolling.

/shrug

[ZeaLitY]

Naturally, someone would think that. It's okay to criticize most things, but religion is "sacred", right?

 

That kind of thinking smacks of the Muslim outrage over the Danish depictions of Muhammad. Freedom of religion is freedom from religion.

http://www.chronocompendium.com/Forums/index.php/topic,7106.0.html

[IAmSerge]

nah, i only said that cus you said in the IRC somethign about how many people this might anger ^.^

[ZeaLitY]

Yeah, I admit, I'm curious. This forum sadly has a lot of Christian apologists, but I wonder who'll come in and make some feeble defense of Buddhism? Or they'll probably just resort to saying I'm too extreme and passionate, or hateful, etc.

[IAmSerge]

I'm Christian.

So what?

If you made a post about Christianity I'd probably just laugh and shrug it off, or post some minor comment...

I would refute but I'm just too lazy to care about what other people say about my religion.
And yes, I know, Laziness or sluggishness is a sin in my religion.  So what?  Never said I was perfect haha.

I wouldn't really be able to refute anyone says that well, but I know a numbe of people who could =D

aaaaanyways...

I think its reasonable to try and find flaws within religions.  What I do not agree with is bashing of religions.

...methinks thats all I haz to say =D

[ZeaLitY]

Today, it's almost certain that:

• A normal Islamic woman had to wear a burka.
• An extremist Islamic man prepared for a suicide attack.
• A normal Christian contributed a donation to or verbally defended an oppressive political platform.
• An extremist Christian abused or discriminated against a gay person.
• A normal Hindu man lived in poverty because of the caste system of India.
• An extremist Hindu plotted to attack Muslims in Pakistan.
• A normal Buddhist relinquished a healthy ambition or desire.
• An extremist Buddhist planned to attack a Christian in Sri Lanka.
• A normal Jewish person circumsized a male baby, causing traumatic pain.
• An extremist Jew verbally endorsed Israel's human rights violation in the recent conflict. (I'd say committed, but the conflict's in a lull right now.)

All are religiously motivated.

I'll stop bashing religion with words when religion stops fucking bashing humanity with almost every available tool of destruction.

[nightmare975]

Oh, god, not this again, I'm just going to back away slowly.

Two problems though, first why does everyone go "OMG! I wuz circumsized!111 I'll never have good sex!11111oneoneone" I was circumsized, even though I am a Christian and not a Jew, do I care? No, not at all. Second, Buddhists attack Christians? Do you have any sources, because that one intrigues me. I always though Buddhists were peace loving dipshits.

[ZeaLitY]

Two problems though, first why does everyone go "OMG! I wuz circumsized!111 I'll never have good sex!11111oneoneone" I was circumsized, even though I am a Christian and not a Jew, do I care? No, not at all.

There is some evidence that uncircumsized men feel more pleasure, which would make sense since there's more sensitive tissue around for the sexing. So some people even try to somehow surgically restore it, although I have no idea how that works.

Second, Buddhists attack Christians? Do you have any sources, because that one intrigues me. I always though Buddhists were peace loving dipshits.

http://compassdirect.org/en/display.php?page=news&lang=en&length=long&idelement=5882 (Sri Lankan thing)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christianity_in_Japan (Christianity stamped out in Japan, definitely Buddhist motivations although I get the sense it was more old-fashioned political oppression in practice)

[nightmare975]

There is some evidence that uncircumsized men feel more pleasure, which would make sense since there's more sensitive tissue around for the sexing. So some people even try to somehow surgically restore it, although I have no idea how that works.

Ah, well, too late for me then.

http://compassdirect.org/en/display.php?page=news&lang=en&length=long&idelement=5882 (Sri Lankan thing)

Wow, remind me to be on the look-out for these guys.

[FaustWolf]

A normal Jewish person circumsized a male baby, causing traumatic pain.

Man, you're tellin' me -- I couldn't walk for a year after that!

Ah, okay, so that joke's not funny anymore. At least it has been argued on scientific grounds that the practice has some longterm hygeinic advantages in the male case (though some recent studies suggest the benefit is slight to nonexistent). In the female case it's just horrendous no matter which way you slice it. Oh jeez, that looks like a really sick pun now that I look at it again.

In any case, it would be interesting if the non-Buddhist apologists among us could prepare some kind of defense of Buddhism. I must admit to being stumped for the time being, out of my relative ignorance of Buddhist practices and traditions. I learned the basics in college, but that's not quite enough -- as an example, it's probably easier to mount a defense of Islam when you've read something written by a particular Sufi mystic that inspired rational thought within yourself than if your knowledge is limited to the Pillars of Islam presented by a visiting guest speaker.

For a Westerner to find redeeming qualities in an Eastern religion will involve real understanding and internalization of "the other," which is something we need to practice in general. Learning to respect another tradition is one of the great fruitful exercises in religious experience as we enter the 21st century in my opinion. But deciding which aspects of Buddhism "should" be kept, and which "should" be excised -- just as with the major Western religions -- ultimately depends on moral codes derived from rational thought.

But that begs the question...how do I know my rational thought is "just"? Maybe that's outside the scope of this topic, maybe not.

[V_Translanka]

The uncircumcised pleasure thing, I believe, comes from the fact that if you aren't your junk isn't constantly rubbing up against the insides of your shorts. As for hygienic effects, I think uncircumcised guys are probably more apt to clean their junk more regularly because of that idea/myth/whatever...but regardless everyone should probably be cleaning their junk (& HANDS!!) more often than they do...

I have no idea why this came up in an anti-overly-pro-Buddhism (a string of prefixes I never thought I'd attach to anything, much less Buddhism) thread (because I only skimmed around), but...yeah...*shrugs*

[Uboa]

Despite the many good things I can say about particular Buddhists or Buddhist meditation or certain tenets of Buddhism, I can't offer any overarching defense of the "ism" for everything that it entails, but that's the same for any "ism" or "anity", etc.  (Including atheism.)

I think the existence of Buddhist practices is a helpful outlet for some who need some way to come to terms with nasty particulars in their lives.  I'm sure the "sangha" serves close to innumerable purposes for people who go to it.  The non-attachment aspect of the sangha can also be comforting for people who are afraid of overwhelming spiritual commitment but need something in their lives that is along the lines of spirituality.

Zeality, a lot of the things you described about Buddhism make me ill-at-ease as well.  For reasons akin to what you were talking about I left a Buddhist group.  For some reason they were very big on "not questioning", and just sitting and listening to scripture being read, which seemed strange to me because I knew that "Buddhism" really began because of the agonizing questions the Buddha had when he first encountered disease, death, old age, etc.  Of course, most of the people in that group were older and lacked the burning questions of a person in their late teens.  If I went back and sat in with that group I know that I wouldn't be as perturbed by it now.  There are figures in Buddhism who have managed to accomplish quite a lot to help their fellow human beings through the groups and communities they have established, and I think that's what a lot of Buddhist's strive for -- for personal reasons too.  (To say that Buddhists are without desire and don't strive really isn't fair.)

I think that the tenets and stories of Buddhism can inspire a great deal of personal science, because when you get right down to it the Buddha was a scientist, and his story is one of those human stories for all time.  That is, doing everything you can to try to come to terms with the nature of your human existence.  Where a lot of Buddhists and Buddhist institutions make a mistake is paying attention only to his solution, and expecting to be able to just follow the eightfold path and find enlightenment.  However, being from a place without (many) large Buddhist institutions, I think we in the west are better able to benefit from the stories of the Buddha, because we often only come into contact with the major points (the Buddha's story, the 4 noble truths, and the eightfold path usually) and are free to think about these as much or as little as it suits us.

So, anyway, back to circumcision now...

[V_Translanka]

In the MSN convo this is where we'd all draw a giant phallus.