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Author Topic: Serge = Janus Theory  (Read 28360 times)

V_Translanka

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Serge = Janus Theory
« Reply #105 on: July 02, 2005, 11:42:28 pm »
Radical Dreamer wasn't talking about the super computer of destruction thing FATE, but some kind of personification/manifestation (w/e) of the idea of fate as a kind of god...
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DarkGizmo

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Serge = Janus Theory
« Reply #106 on: July 03, 2005, 12:41:37 am »
I rather think that the ENTITY control Fate, no?
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V_Translanka

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Serge = Janus Theory
« Reply #107 on: July 03, 2005, 01:33:12 am »
Well, if it could control fate, why not veer Lavos off course in the beginning instead of waiting until it destroyed everything and made a big mess?
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DarkGizmo

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Serge = Janus Theory
« Reply #108 on: July 03, 2005, 01:37:59 am »
BTW the way I see it the entity doesn,t control fate was only claering some things up and I think the entity couldn't touch/alter much so it did what it have to do in order to save itself with the less move possible
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Sentenal

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« Reply #109 on: July 03, 2005, 01:32:31 pm »
The idea behind CT and CC was that you can change Fate, that it doesn't control everything.  In CT, you change the future, avoiding the Lavos destroying the world.  In CC, its a bit more literal, but similar.
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Radical Dreamer

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« Reply #110 on: July 03, 2005, 01:56:00 pm »
Quote from: GrayLensman

FATE cannot be the entity because it did not exist during the events of Chrono Trigger.


Again, please, do not confuse the super computer FATE with Fate (the godess / entity).


Quote from: V_Translanka
Radical Dreamer wasn't talking about the super computer of destruction thing FATE, but some kind of personification/manifestation (w/e) of the idea of fate as a kind of god...


Thank you. ^^




Quote from: Sentenal

The idea behind CT and CC was that you can change Fate, that it doesn't control everything. In CT, you change the future, avoiding the Lavos destroying the world. In CC, its a bit more literal, but similar.


You are right to some extent.
In CT, RD and CC you are able to change events becaue fate allows you to do so.

Do not forget that fate has no forgiveness for those who dare stand against it...
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DarkGizmo

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« Reply #111 on: July 03, 2005, 01:56:28 pm »
Changing fate always bring memories of Legend of Dragoon and I think that the is no "unchangeable" fate
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Sentenal

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« Reply #112 on: July 03, 2005, 04:14:20 pm »
Quote from: Radical Dreamer
Quote from: GrayLensman

FATE cannot be the entity because it did not exist during the events of Chrono Trigger.


Again, please, do not confuse the super computer FATE with Fate (the godess / entity).


Quote from: V_Translanka
Radical Dreamer wasn't talking about the super computer of destruction thing FATE, but some kind of personification/manifestation (w/e) of the idea of fate as a kind of god...


Thank you. ^^




Quote from: Sentenal

The idea behind CT and CC was that you can change Fate, that it doesn't control everything. In CT, you change the future, avoiding the Lavos destroying the world. In CC, its a bit more literal, but similar.


You are right to some extent.
In CT, RD and CC you are able to change events becaue fate allows you to do so.

Do not forget that fate has no forgiveness for those who dare stand against it...


...  No.  The idea behind Fate is that everything is predetermined, everything that happens can't be changed.  The idea of changing history is saying that there is no fate, you decide yourself what will happen.
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Radical Dreamer

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Serge = Janus Theory
« Reply #113 on: July 03, 2005, 05:57:17 pm »
Quote from: Sentenal

...  No.  The idea behind Fate is that everything is predetermined, everything that happens can't be changed.  The idea of changing history is saying that there is no fate, you decide yourself what will happen.


Or maybe the choise itself is merly an illusion?
Maybe the choise that is made is pre-determinated?

The change of history is also pre-determinated in some universes.
In other universes, it never occurs.
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DarkGizmo

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« Reply #114 on: July 03, 2005, 06:44:37 pm »
Okay so if the entity that control Fate would create a world where humans get killed in 1999 AD then give the illusion to Crono and co. that they modified human's Fate? That would be wierd
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Radical Dreamer

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« Reply #115 on: July 03, 2005, 06:55:09 pm »
Quote from: DarkGizmo
Okay so if the entity that control Fate would create a world where humans get killed in 1999 AD then give the illusion to Crono and co. that they modified human's Fate? That would be wierd


No................
You got me completly wrong.

Let me exmplain what I ment by illusion.
Have you seen the movie 'The Matrix'?

I hope so.

Anyway, there's a sence in which the Oracle tells Neo: "Don't worry about the vase".
So he asks "What vase?" looks around him while accidently pushing and breaking a vase.
Then she tells him that the next thing he's going to wonder is if she hadn't told him 'not to worry about the vase', would he still break it.


A lot better example is the Quantom Theory.
But I'll stop here. ;P
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DarkGizmo

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« Reply #116 on: July 03, 2005, 07:05:34 pm »
yes I saw the matrix and I remeber that part.

I thinkt of the oracle in that part like a timeless being she can see various possibilities in time, so she knew that he would hit the vase what we don't know is what Neo was wondering
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Radical Dreamer

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« Reply #117 on: July 03, 2005, 07:10:57 pm »
Quote from: DarkGizmo
yes I saw the matrix and I remeber that part.

I thinkt of the oracle in that part like a timeless being she can see various possibilities in time, so she knew that he would hit the vase what we don't know is what Neo was wondering


EXACTLY!!!
She is a lot like fate in the Chrono series, in my opinion.
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DarkGizmo

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« Reply #118 on: July 03, 2005, 07:51:22 pm »
she never set Fate to anyone while yous aid that the Entity control Fate and write it somewhere where no one can modify while giving to illusion of modifying it.

It seems liek there is no way to see if they modified Fate like the story tells us or are given the illusion of modifying something that has already been set to be modified
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V_Translanka

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Serge = Janus Theory
« Reply #119 on: July 03, 2005, 08:16:11 pm »
Alright, using the 400 year reuinion, I will try and explain why I do not believe that Fate or any "God of Fate" (or w/e you call it)...

Robo: I have come to think that someone, or something wanted us to see all this. The different events over time, that we have witnessed. It is almost as if some entity wanted to relive its past.

Ayla: Ayla know! When people die, elders say, see whole life pass by!

Frog: 'Tis true that morals do relive their most profound memories before death claimeth them. Yet those memories are often sad ones.

Robo: Think things like, "If only I had done this," or, "I shouldn't have done that..." triggers unpleasent, old memories.

Okay, this part clearly tells us that the Entity is a dying thing. The gates are created and are seen as it's "memories". How does this apply to Fate? It doesn't.

Frog: Lavos playeth an integral role in the fortunes of the Entity...

Magus: .. so who is this Entity?

Robo: It is unknown, whose memories these are. It may be something beyond our comprehenseion. Our journey may come to an end when we finall discover the identify of the Entity. ... ... shall we turn in for the night?

Now, at this second juncture, from what Frog says (and from what we already know about the plot), how the heck does Lavos suffer Fate at all?

The fact of the matter is that it's not just the most accepted because so many people believe it, but because there is so much proof collaborated to support it: THE PLANET IS THE ENTITY.
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