Fuck Carrie Prejean and the California Beauty Pageant

[ZeaLitY]

If you haven't heard of this, Miss California took flak recently during the pageant because she came out and said that "marriage should be between a man and a woman only." The person who gave her hell for it, Perez Hilton, is not exactly a shining beacon of humanity, but he's at least not a neanderthal primitivistic fuckhead spouting anti-human and anti-Constitutional religious bullshit.

Andrew Sullivan really depressed me when he said this:

Carrie Prejean has had to go through some really bad stuff she didn't deserve, just for inarticulately expressing a valid opinion in front of Perez Hilton.

This is the retarded line the rest of the Republicans are taking. "Buuut but but, it was free speech!" So, that somehow makes it unable to be challenged? However, Andrew Sullivan, being an intelligent person, aired dissent to this later in the day:

But it's not a valid opinion Andrew and you know it.  It's an opinion, yes, but valid?  Come on now.  Let's say the same thing had happened during a beauty pageant in say, 1965, and the contestant had said, essentially, I don't think whites and blacks should be able to be marry because that's just not how it should be and the Bible said and blah blah blah.  Now say said contestant was vilified by liberals and the civil rights movement for expression, and in turn conservatives and libertarians and First Amendment hounds complained she was being attacked for her "valid" opinion.

Now flash forward almost 25 years.  Do you think anyone short of KKK members, and maybe those people we all saw going to Palin rallies last fall would look back at that answer and think it was actually valid?  Dated/a sign of the times, probably.  Bigoted, maybe.  An opinion, of course.  But just because someone thinks something and has the god and Constitutional given right to say something (say anything!) does not make their opinion valid.

I'm sorry.  But I think you know that.  And I honestly think the reason you are hedging around this Carrie Prejean thing a bit is because her answer had a Christian bent, not because of free speech, or because you think we need to deal realistically with what people on the opposite side (you know, those who only want "opposite marriage") think or where they're coming from.

And this:

Twenty years ago, I watched an interview with Anita Bryant on Larry King where she claimed that the gay community had destroyed her career.  "The very same thing they accuse me of doing to them, they did to me," she said in a paraphrased burst of self-pity.  It was apparently lost on her that she brought it on herself, that people will fight back and that her suffering was mild compared to the injury she inflicted on countless people who were already objects of hatred.

Perez Hilton (who I'd never heard of before this ridiculous beauty queen flap) strikes me as something of a jerk and a very bad "face" for gay marriage equality.  But come on - the insults that Prejean has had to endure are mild compared to the vicious and hateful invective I've been subjected to for being gay my entire life.  Hell, I get attacked and insulted more in five minutes on a chat room for being gay than Prejean has had to suffer since this entire affair began.

Millions of law-abiding, tax-paying citizens of California were stripped of their rights in a deeply insulting and grossly unfair vote fueled by bigotry, and the right wingers are upset because a beauty queen was treated a bit badly?  Please.

Thank you.

Sadly, Miss California is now finding herself in trouble with the state because there are topless photos of her. Ah, America...where anti-human hate bullshit is A-OK in selecting a "beautiful" person, but topless photos are an inadmissible sin for such a selection. Nevermind that the pageant itself paid for her implants.

I hope she gets dethroned. Not because of the topless photos, because of the coincidental justice over her religious nuttery.

[KebreI]

I think the media are targeting her completely unfairly due to her making an unpopuler statement. Do I agree? hell no. If she wasn't a complete dumbass, I would admire her courage and audacity to say what she feels whether right or wrong. This particular case pisses me off more then the countless other similar cases, why? No idea but it does. Punish deeds, not words.

So ZeaLitY, I would like to say in this case Fuck You, and Fuck the millions of people who think a idea regardless of how blatantly unfair and prejudice, can't even be said today.

[nightmare975]

The question shouldn't have been asked in the first place. He knew the answer he was going to get, he just wanted to out her for her beliefs.

I don't give a fuck about "gay" marriage. I think they should have it just so the country can shut the fuck up about it and get back to our economic problems.

The others questions for the other contestants were bullshit, by the way. The pageant is a joke, blah blah blah I could go on and on.

And I hate the Republican party, we don't have the balls to do anything (yes, I, regretfully, am a Republican) yet we place the blame on Obama for shit he's trying to do to fix our country.

Also, did she have nude photos or something? I heard someone say it on a commercial, but I have been trying to avoid the news for a while.

Okay, I'm done. Here's some Prince to cheer you up Z.

 

[ZeaLitY]

So ZeaLitY, I would like to say in this case Fuck You, and Fuck the millions of people who think a idea regardless of how blatantly unfair and prejudice, can't even be said today.

You're failing to make an important distinction. No one stopped her from saying it. Rather, someone disagreed with it, and there's the outrage. Free speech exists for both sides: her right to say it, and our right to disagree.

Also, did she have nude photos or something?

Nothing is actually exposed, but since she's shirtless in them, it's too much for the beauty pageant people.

[KebreI]

From where I stand the her opposition couldn't believe that she said it. Media is bashing not what she said at all from what I read, its that she said it. I didn't care for Perez, but he critiqued what she said not that she said it (at first at least, his blogs are another story).

Today I am impress every time I met a real activist of there belief. I know racists, I know gays, I know people who are socialist and people who are objectivist. Every single one I admire, not the idea or belief but, that regardless of public opinion they say and voice what they feel. Today's world doesn't try to just punish some of them they do in fact try to silence them. That kind of 'solution' is what leads, I feel, to extremist(who I do not feel for as much).

[Belaith]

I believe gay marriage should be between a man and a woman.

[ZaichikArky]

You know, I'm all for gay rights, but I would not equate her statement with the KKK. She didn't talk about lynching gays, she said that she was against gay marriage. Her opinion, wrong as it may be, resonates with a lot of people in this country. So let her represent them... she already is. I know she's in some anti-gay organization promoting her views. I don't really think someone like her is going to make a big impact. Already most of New England has voted to legalize gay marriage and soon the west will follow after it... soon enough.

Anyway, she could have lied about her opinion to everyone and said she supports it and yadda yadda and not raised such contraversy, but she decided to stand up for what she believes in and essentially forfeit her crown (before all her naked pics). So if she's so passionate about it, so be it. I don't really agree with her, but it's not like I'm going to go curse out those people in the car I saw the other day with about 20 extremely rightist bumper stickers all over it (including marriage= man+women and gun rights).

[FaustWolf]

There was once a point in time at which mainstream American citizens were split in regards to the enslavement of people of a certain skin color. Granted, that was way more severe than the degredation homosexuals seem to feel over this particular issue, but it's still about societal revolution.

But aside from the content of what she said, I felt she could have expressed herself far more articulately, and that alone makes me glad they didn't give her the crown. I shudder to think what would have happened if they asked her to do a derivative or something. She would be much more empowered if she traded those implants in for a college scholarship.

[FouCapitan]

True freedom of expression and speech.  With it comes good and bad.  What people fail to realize is the flak that can come down from saying whatever you believe or feel at any time, especially when grounded in taboo, contested, religious, political, or other such strongly divided subjects.  Whether her fundamentally based opinion on same-sex marriages is right or wrong isn't the issue (I personally don't care.  Gay people fall in love and decide to spend the rest of their lives together that's pretty much marriage right there, closer to it than half the hetero marriages in existance today) it's the reaction to it that's becoming some big fucking deal, and honestly the reaction is only natural.

The Right wing should really pick its battles better.  If they focused more on economical conservatism instead of always sucking the dick of the Christian right all the time maybe the country as a whole would be taking the non-religious grounded principles they hold more seriously.  It's one thing to personally feel gay marriage is wrong, it's another to hold everyone in the world to your own beliefs.  You don't like it, don't do it.  Simple as that.

[Thought]

Prejean? She's nothing. Hilton is the one who you should be cursing; he did far more to damage the cause of same-sex marriage advocates than Prejean.

Since I did not see the "incident," perhaps I am undervaluing the tone of the statement, but, in context with her preamble, it seems like Prejean essentially said “"Yay, we get a choice! I just don't approve of both choices."

It is not an ideal stance, but Perez Hilton's response was far worse. His response was essentially "You disagree with me?! Too bad, boo on freedom of choice!"

If he just ignored her and said nothing, would it have made the news? Maybe as a sentence or two in a story covering the pageant in general, but it was his reaction that made her statement make headlines.

Through his own intolerance of opposing ideologies, he has strengthened that opposition; he has fueled their flames of passion. Anti-same-sex-marriage groups now have a martyr. They can point to Prejean as an illustration of how "hateful," "oppressive," and "evil" homosexuals and the "homosexual agenda" can be. Her time in the limelight will hopefully be short, but Hilton put her there in the first place.

What good came out of Hilton's response? His petty vindictiveness and unprofessional behavior are not traits that the homosexual community should want to be associated with. He is not a leader or a figurehead for them to rally around. It is rather harsh, but nothing can excuse Hilton’s actions. There is no mistreatment he could have gone through, no insults he could have endured, that would have justified him. Each time homosexuals respond to intolerance with intolerance, they validate that approach and in turn validate their attackers. Nothing can ever justify a person willingly devaluing themselves in that manner.

The most expedient route to social justice is to be "more human than the humans," to behave in a more morally upright manner than your opposition, to be such a shining example of humanity that others -- poor examples of humanity they may be -- cannot help but admit that you are, indeed, human and are entitled to all the rights there associated.

[Jutty]

What relevance did that have with the Miss America pageant? If Perez didn't want truthful answers perhaps he should shut the fuck up. If anyone should be cursing anything it should be the beauty pageants and how useless they are and how the promote anorexia. I seen this in the news and I think Hilton knew the answer he was going to get and was just prodding. Also I find Hilton's existence to be far more insulting to homosexual's than Miss California's statement. Now I got to go see her tittays!

Edit: That pic is far from scandalous and it's from a lingerie advert. This is just more Perez garbage to try to get some media attention. http://thedirty.com/2009/05/06/exclusive-image-miss-california-carrie-prejean-exposed/

[IAmSerge]

This is the retarded line the rest of the Republicans are taking. "Buuut but but, it was free speech!" So, that somehow makes it unable to be challenged? However, Andrew Sullivan, being an intelligent person, aired dissent to this later in the day:

Just because its an opinion and has the right to be challanged doesn't mean that people should be given shit over their opinions.  We have already learned how to do this with CT vs CC, so lets take what we've learned and apply it elsewhere in our lives, hmm?

[teaflower]

Honestly, I'm cool with people's opinions. You have every right to say 'I think marriage should be between a man and a woman only' or 'I think whites shouldn't marry blacks' or anything like that, so long as you show enough respect to say 'I think BLAH BLAH BLAH but it's cool that you think differently.' When people force their opinions on me, it angers me.

Honestly, we seem to have our freedom of speech. We are supposed to be able to say whatever the fuck we want, but when we try and say something we think is true that most people don't agree with, we get yelled at, berated, insulted, and potentially jailed. It's like they're saying that we can say whatever we want, so long as everyone else likes what we say.

Government hurts my head.

[ZeaLitY]

God, this topic has brought out the inner frightened moderate in everyone.

What good came out of Hilton's response? His petty vindictiveness and unprofessional behavior are not traits that the homosexual community should want to be associated with. He is not a leader or a figurehead for them to rally around. It is rather harsh, but nothing can excuse Hilton’s actions. There is no mistreatment he could have gone through, no insults he could have endured, that would have justified him. Each time homosexuals respond to intolerance with intolerance, they validate that approach and in turn validate their attackers. Nothing can ever justify a person willingly devaluing themselves in that manner.

Everyone I quoted and my own remarks flagged Hilton as an idiot. This doesn't exonerate the manufactured scandal or the religious idiocy of her views and their right to be criticized. Hilton didn't erupt at her at the pageant; he merely disparaged her for this after it had ended on his blog.

What relevance did that have with the Miss America pageant?

Believe it or not, beauty pageants have at least a slight veneer of focus on inner beauty as well, easily referenced with the "I want world peace" cliché answer for finalists.

This is the retarded line the rest of the Republicans are taking. "Buuut but but, it was free speech!" So, that somehow makes it unable to be challenged? However, Andrew Sullivan, being an intelligent person, aired dissent to this later in the day:

Just because its an opinion and has the right to be challanged doesn't mean that people should be given shit over their opinions.  We have already learned how to do this with CT vs CC, so lets take what we've learned and apply it elsewhere in our lives, hmm?

Sorry, but when someone supports the systematic oppression of an entire group of people born a certain way beyond their control, I'm going to "give them shit" about it, just as I give ignorant Chrono Trigger fanboys shit about their baseless criticisms of Chrono Cross.

When people force their opinions on me, it angers me.

Enjoy your right to vote? If you would have asked most men around the turn of the century, they might have said that women shouldn't be allowed. But suffragists didn't accept that. They criticized these men for their stupidity and figuratively martyred themselves through public vilification and jail sentences. Free speech includes the right to criticize, especially where social improvement is concerned.

[FouCapitan]

Edit: That pic is far from scandalous and it's from a lingerie advert. This is just more Perez garbage to try to get some media attention. http://thedirty.com/2009/05/06/exclusive-image-miss-california-carrie-prejean-exposed/

I made the mistake of reading through some of those comments.  This entire issue if retarded tabloid trash, plain and simple.  Also, am I the only one imagining the blogger's post of it being read by Jiminy Glick?