Author Topic: Cease & Desist Letter  (Read 199177 times)

ZealKnight

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Re: Cease & Desist Letter
« Reply #165 on: May 10, 2009, 08:28:51 pm »
Ok, even if we claim that the hack isn't illegal, how about the story and characters? Don't they all belong to SE, and if we use them in a fan project isn't it still illegal? They don't have to argue the hack is illegal, just the game.

Dark3mx

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Re: Cease & Desist Letter
« Reply #166 on: May 10, 2009, 08:30:30 pm »
What i dont understand is why SE is having such a fit if it is, in fact mentioned in the game, that SE owns the characters in the game... but then again, was the compendium ever granted permission to use SE's info?

neo-fusion

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Re: Cease & Desist Letter
« Reply #167 on: May 10, 2009, 08:32:08 pm »
Have they always known about this? Or did they just recently get wind of the project.

Hipnos

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Re: Cease & Desist Letter
« Reply #168 on: May 10, 2009, 08:38:15 pm »
I wasn't talking about Ressurection, it was just an example  :picardno

There were fanprojects before, that got A LOT of work of the fanbase of CT, for example the Ressurection.

SE noticed that, and sent a C&D. Some people may have got their hopes up, and CT:DS came out. But, let's admit, CT:DS is just a port with DBT and some spin-off dungeons. That isn't enough. The fanbase deserves more than this, don't you think?

C&D is just a way to say "Hey, you idiots! Stop doing that and give us your money, because we don't care about what you think! Buy our games and STFU!"

I personally never bought a SE game. And never will. This isn't the "ChronoCompendium" way, but that just shows that I was right in not wasting my money on a company that doesn't respect the fans.

Dark3mx

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Re: Cease & Desist Letter
« Reply #169 on: May 10, 2009, 08:41:31 pm »
I found more info:

The idea for a game is not protected by copyright. The same is true of the name or title given to the game and of the method or methods for playing it.

Copyright protects only the particular manner of an author’s expression in literary, artistic, or musical form. Copyright protection does not extend to any idea, system, method, device, or trademark material involved in the development, merchandising, or playing of a game. Once a game has been made public, nothing in the copyright law prevents others from developing another game based on similar principles.

Some material prepared in connection with a game may be subject to copyright if it contains a sufficient amount of literary or pictorial expression. For example, the text matter describing the rules of the game, or the pictorial matter appearing on the gameboard or container, may be registrable.

ZealKnight

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Re: Cease & Desist Letter
« Reply #170 on: May 10, 2009, 08:44:24 pm »
More importantly we should be sending this to video game news sites everywhere. If can get recognition from sites like 1up, Kotaku, Destructoid, joystick, ign, or gamespot then we reach a mass audience and raise more recognition for the series on an extremely wide scale. Next we hit SE at their own website, with links to all those sites with their news stories, little or nothing but perhaps the big wigs will get the picture.

Quote
Some material prepared in connection with a game may be subject to copyright if it contains a sufficient amount of literary or pictorial expression. For example, the text matter describing the rules of the game, or the pictorial matter appearing on the gameboard or container, may be registrable.

This sounds like it include same characters and their sprites. And it said nothing of using the same characters, it only mentioned similar being ok.

FaustWolf

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Re: Cease & Desist Letter
« Reply #171 on: May 10, 2009, 08:45:46 pm »
Definitely keep researching legal info and arguments folks, might just turn up something interesting. At the very least, you'll learn lots about copyright law and the various nuances that exist within. We're all learning together on this one, seeing as it's the first low-level SNES game modification to receive a C&D.

Quote from: Neo Fusion
Have they always known about this? Or did they just recently get wind of the project.
That is (one of) the million dollar questions. We only know for sure that SE knew about it last week, because that's when they began Internet stalking ZeaLitY.

Yes. You heard correctly. ZeaLitY was pretty much Internet stalked by at least one Square Enix lawyer. Not many of us can claim to that kind of attention, eh?  :grimm  The same probably extends to any other named parties in the C&D.
« Last Edit: May 10, 2009, 08:48:06 pm by FaustWolf »

Dark3mx

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Re: Cease & Desist Letter
« Reply #172 on: May 10, 2009, 08:53:15 pm »
The purpose of copyright law is to encourage creative work by granting a temporary monopoly in an author's original creations. This monopoly takes the form of six rights in areas where the author retains exclusive control. These rights are:

(1) the right of reproduction (i.e., copying),
(2) the right to create derivative works,
(3) the right to distribution,
(4) the right to performance,
(5) the right to display, and
(6) the digital transmission performance right.

The law of copyright protects the first two rights in both private and public contexts, whereas an author can only restrict the last four rights in the public sphere. Claims of infringement must show that the defendant exercised one of these rights. For example, if I create unauthorized videotape copies of Star Trek II: The Wrath of Khan and distribute them to strangers on the street, then I have infringed both the copyright holder's rights of reproduction and distribution. If I merely re-enact The Wrath of Khan for my family in my home, then I have not infringed on the copyright. Names, ideas and facts are not protected by copyright.

Trademark law, in contrast, is designed to protect consumers from confusion as to the source of goods (as well as to protect the trademark owner's market). To this end, the law gives the owner of a registered trademark the right to use the mark in commerce without confusion. If someone introduces a trademark into the market that is likely to cause confusion, then the newer mark infringes on the older one. The laws of trademark infringement and dilution protect against this likelihood of confusion. Trademark protects names, images and short phrases.

Infringement protects against confusion about the origin of goods. The plaintiff in an infringement suit must show that defendant's use of the mark is likely to cause such a confusion. For instance, if I were an unscrupulous manufacturer, I might attempt to capitalize on the fame of Star Trek by creating a line of 'Spock Activewear.' If consumers could reasonably believe that my activewear was produced or endorsed by the owners of the Spock trademark, then I would be liable for infringement.

The law of trademark dilution protects against confusion concerning the character of a registered trademark. Suppose I created a semi-automatic assault rifle and marketed it as 'The Lt. Uhura 5000.' Even if consumers could not reasonably believe that the Star Trek trademark holders produced this firearm, the trademark holders could claim that my use of their mark harmed the family-oriented character of their mark. I would be liable for dilution.

Panzer88

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Re: Cease & Desist Letter
« Reply #173 on: May 10, 2009, 09:21:59 pm »
being this close to completion you know it's going to float onto the internet inconspicuously somewhere, and what can they do? Chrono Compendium does not condone it, forbids it, and denies it's existence. It'll come. The problem with SE was how much attention this was getting and that it had it's own website etc. You don't see them going after other fan hacks, it's just when one rises so high in popularity they have to have some sort of reaction or they'll get walked all over. Never-the-less I'm sure eventually we will see CE in some informal capacity.

ZealKnight

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Re: Cease & Desist Letter
« Reply #174 on: May 10, 2009, 09:22:12 pm »
Dark3mx, I don't know what site your using or if you are using a  text book, but this is a government site you can use.

http://www.copyright.gov/

Lord J Esq

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Re: Cease & Desist Letter
« Reply #175 on: May 10, 2009, 09:37:10 pm »
Like FaustWolf said, it's educational to research this stuff. But I don't want people to get any false hope out of this kind of discussion. We're a bunch of kids and twenty-somethings looking up legal trivia on the Internet. Most of us have no clue how to correctly interpret legal language. We have no organization and limited research capabilities. On their side, Square Enix has an entire phalanx of experienced lawyers who have dealt with exactly this kind of issue many times before. They have most of the legal precedents working on their side, and boatloads of cash. We're outgunned fifty to one and we don't even have the money to play in the first place.

I know these kinds of odds conjure up romantic images of the heroic underdog, overcoming a superior foe to score a victory for great justice. But, first, in real life that's not usually how the story ends, and, second, we don't exactly have "great justice" on our side to begin with. At best, there is a legitimate gray area. At best. Short of some serious legal ballet, Square Enix would waltz into court, cry "copyright infringement," put up some charts and a couple of "experts" on the stand, and someone on our side would be out tens of thousands of dollars o' cash plus tens of thousands more in court costs.

This is the wrong battle to pick. Anything short of absolute victory would be extremely costly and personally distressing to those involved, and an absolute victory simply isn't going to happen with this specific battle. Essentially our position would have to be not that Square Enix is wrong in its reading of the law, but that the law itself is wrong and SE's stated copyright claims are not valid. That would be very hard to prove, because Crimson Echoes is built directly out of the code of a Square game that isn't even twenty years old and in fact just had a major commercial re-release on a new platform.

I know that people are picking apart SE's legal rationale mostly to vent stress. That's cool. Just don't expect ZeaLitY to decide to fight this, because he has already decided not to and he made the right decision.

KillaGouge

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Re: Cease & Desist Letter
« Reply #176 on: May 10, 2009, 09:38:32 pm »
I've submitted a story to http://www.slashdot.org to help get the word out.  Hopefully it makes it

Katie Skyye

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Re: Cease & Desist Letter
« Reply #177 on: May 10, 2009, 09:58:54 pm »
Ah...I was working on a Desktop Wallpaper and everything. I was going to rant about the project o my mom, and be excited for a Chrono game all over again...

And now...it's gone.

Such a terrible waste, what an awful occurrence. I'm just glad I got to play Prophet's Guile...I've somehow lost my file, though. O_o Not sure how that happened.

In the grand scheme of life, this isn't really a big deal, but...I'm not really worried about the big scheme of things at this point. This hits me right in the heart...
« Last Edit: May 11, 2009, 06:27:26 pm by Katie Skyye »

Magus22

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Re: Cease & Desist Letter
« Reply #178 on: May 10, 2009, 10:35:39 pm »
Zeality, please let us know what else, if however so little, we can do.

I have posted the news on several sites; Included among them are the massive KOEI fan site located at koeiwarriors.co.uk where I am a proud and respected member.

Also, I am willing to have my Japanese friends translate an English message to Japanese to have posted on ChronoCenter (the Japanese equivalent of our Compendium only on the other side of the planet).

Though probably useless, I have successfully completed my Junior year semester at college where I took a 400 level Media Law class. If I can help in ANY way, please feel free to ask. I am eager to help.

V_Translanka

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Re: Cease & Desist Letter
« Reply #179 on: May 10, 2009, 11:04:12 pm »
I wasn't talking about Ressurection, it was just an example  :picardno

There were fanprojects before, that got A LOT of work of the fanbase of CT, for example the Ressurection.

SE noticed that, and sent a C&D. Some people may have got their hopes up, and CT:DS came out. But, let's admit, CT:DS is just a port with DBT and some spin-off dungeons. That isn't enough. The fanbase deserves more than this, don't you think?

C&D is just a way to say "Hey, you idiots! Stop doing that and give us your money, because we don't care about what you think! Buy our games and STFU!"

I personally never bought a SE game. And never will. This isn't the "ChronoCompendium" way, but that just shows that I was right in not wasting my money on a company that doesn't respect the fans.

1) CTDS also had a new translation which plenty of fans (myself included) had previously been so bent out of shape about that they went and made their OWN translations...I think it was nice of them to finally clear some stuff up...CTDS was also the first ever European release of the game. The classic FFs also got "just ports"...on GBA. I think these are more or less examples of them testing the waters...

2) It's not like SE is doing this to spite the fans or gamers. It's their intellectual property. If they don't stand up for their rights, they give up hold of them. If you don't stand up, you get trampled on. Rule of life, no change rule.

being this close to completion you know it's going to float onto the internet inconspicuously somewhere, and what can they do? Chrono Compendium does not condone it, forbids it, and denies it's existence. It'll come. The problem with SE was how much attention this was getting and that it had it's own website etc. You don't see them going after other fan hacks, it's just when one rises so high in popularity they have to have some sort of reaction or they'll get walked all over. Never-the-less I'm sure eventually we will see CE in some informal capacity.

It won't happen because the only people that could possibly even have a copy (I'm not saying anyone does though, as far as I'm concerned it's already dust in the wind) are the ones that are looking at litigation should it be leaked and found out about. Basically, the only people at any kind of risk are the only people that could leak it at all...and if they do, they put the rest in possible harm's way unless they out themselves as having done it when they do, I guess...>_>
« Last Edit: May 10, 2009, 11:06:49 pm by V_Translanka »