Author Topic: Straight Talk Express with the Compendium...Next Stop: Truth  (Read 40387 times)

FaustWolf

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There are several disturbing rumors floating about regarding the present situation. While we wait for an official overture from Square Enix, let's nip these in the bud, shall we?

Rumor 1: "Crimson Echoes was a piece of vaporware. The modders made this C&D up because they knew they would never finish something so ambitious!"

This is extremely easy to disprove. The terms of the C&D do not forbid gameplay footage taken during the beta testing phase to be uploaded to our understanding, so we'll try to get some of our numerous recordings processed and uploaded. For now, please review the preview videos.

Rumor 2: "These modders never even spoke to a live person to verify that the C&D is real and not a hoax."

Utterly untrue. As of now, one Compendium member not in the core project team and one Compendium member in the core project team have reached SE legal and confirmed. However, they are not at liberty to say what was discussed. We await another official overture from Square Enix.

Rumor 3: "These modders were taking donations from fans, and just ran away with the money."

Do you see a Paypal button anywhere on the Chrono Compendium? No? I assure you, the CE team did not receive a penny for its work. This was a non-profit fan project, powered only by sheer love for the Chrono series.

Ramsus says: You may also notice this site is one of the few active gaming sites out there that doesn't feature any ads. We've never had any interest in making any money off the site or any of the projects associated with it.

We also turn down offers for free hosting in cases where it might create a conflict of interest or would lead to the introduction of ads.

This attitude holds true for the Crimson Echoes project as well -- no profit, all pain. There's never been any monetary gain to be had out of all this, which keeps our intentions and our direction pure of conflicting interests or artistic compromises, and that's why it's been such a pleasure to work on this site and projects like Crimson Echoes. We don't have to worry about profit, so we're completely free to only do what's interesting, challenging, or fun.

Rumor 4: "These modders were going to distribute hacked ROMs."

Members of the wider fan modding community will no doubt appreciate the nuance in this accusation. There exists a strict code of honor amongst modders according to which modifications must *never* be distributed as ROMs. Crimson Echoes, like Prophet's Guile before it, would have been distributed as a Lunar IPS patch. Within modding culture this is the acceptable way of going about it, and a plethora of SNES-era mods, first translations, and retranslations have made their way onto the Internet in that form. You will very rarely find a fan modder who distributes full ROMs with the modifications in place, and such modders deserve a proper spanking.

Rumor 5: "These modders were violating Square Enix's copy protection on Chrono Trigger SNES."

We are unaware of any copy protection placed on Chrono Trigger SNES, at least in the sense that the ROM might try to sabotage itself during the backup process (format shifting the game from an SNES cart to a ROM). Such copy protection did exist in Chrono Trigger: DS -- in that case, people who made backups of their game discovered that the game would freeze in an emulator at certain points -- but Crimson Echoes had absolutely nothing to do with CT:DS.

As for whether format shifting itself is considered fair use, Guru of Life Emeritus Geiger reminded us of what's stated in the Electronic Frontier Foundation's Fair Use FAQ:


What's been recognized as fair use?

Courts have previously found that a use was fair where the use of the copyrighted work was socially beneficial. In particular, U.S. courts have recognized the following fair uses: criticism, comment, news reporting, teaching, scholarship, research and parodies.

In addition, in 1984 the Supreme Court held that time-shifting (for example, private, non-commercial home taping of television programs with a VCR to permit later viewing) is fair use. (Sony Corporation of America v. Universal City Studios, 464 U.S. 417 (1984, S.C.)

Although the legal basis is not completely settled, many lawyers believe that the following (and many other uses) are also fair uses:

Space-shifting or format-shifting - that is, taking content you own in one format and putting it into another format, for personal, non-commercial use. For instance, "ripping" an audio CD (that is, making an MP3-format version of an audio CD that you already own) is considered fair use by many lawyers, based on the 1984 Betamax decision and the 1999 Rio MP3 player decision (RIAA v. Diamond Multimedia, 180 F. 3d 1072, 1079, 9th Circ. 1999.)
Making a personal back-up copy of content you own - for instance, burning a copy of an audio CD you own.


Please keep an eye on the Chrono Compendium and crimsonechoes.com for further announcements.
« Last Edit: May 15, 2009, 12:32:06 am by FaustWolf »

IAmSerge

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Re: Straight Talk Express with FW...Next Stop: Truth
« Reply #1 on: May 13, 2009, 05:06:57 am »

Rumor 2: "These modders were taking donations from fans, and just ran away with the money."

Do you see a Paypal button anywhere on the Chrono Compendium? No? I assure you, the CE team did not receive a penny for its work. This was a non-profit fan project, powered only by sheer love for the Chrono series.

I want to know what fools thought this... and where I can find a link to a place I can beat-em-up for it (jk for that last part)

Ramsus

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Re: Straight Talk Express with FW...Next Stop: Truth
« Reply #2 on: May 13, 2009, 05:20:36 am »
You may also notice this site is one of the few active gaming sites out there that doesn't feature any ads. We've never had any interest in making any money off the site or any of the projects associated with it.

We also turn down offers for free hosting in cases where it might create a conflict of interest or would lead to the introduction of ads.

This attitude holds true for the Crimson Echoes project as well -- no profit, all pain. There's never been any monetary gain to be had out of all this, which keeps our intentions and our direction pure of conflicting interests or artistic compromises, and that's why it's been such a pleasure to work on this site and projects like Crimson Echoes. We don't have to worry about profit, so we're completely free to only do what's interesting, challenging, or fun.

valancedom

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Re: Straight Talk Express with FW...Next Stop: Truth
« Reply #3 on: May 13, 2009, 10:01:46 am »
In contrast to the flaming and the rants seen elsewhere, I decided to examine the context of the Cease and Desist order, and examine the possibility of precedents. While the $150,000 fine sounds quite scary, it is not arbitrary. In cases of willful copyright infringement, with the intent to profit from such a work, and with direct damages shown to the company, there is the possibility of fine. However, in order to do so, the company would first have to prove to a court that A. The project has directly damaged the sales of the game, B. That there was the intent to profit, and C. That the alleged infringement does not fall under the fair use clauses of copyright law, which protects certain derivative works.
The instructions to shut down the parts of the site, in relation to Temporal Flux, are only valid if that section included instructions on the removal of copy protection from the cartridge itself, and under the Digital Millennium Copyright Act, would only apply to rom dumping, not the editing of content within the rom. The Act's purpose is to prevent the illegal copying of content, but the act does not apply to the modification of files.
The question of liability in terms of the leaks is questionable. If it is shown that the you, and those whom this letter is specifically addressed to, namely messrs x,y,z... etc are willfully responsible for leaking the content, then if they can prove in court that it was you, you could face a limited fine. If the content was leaked by a beta tester, then they would be held liable as an individual, however your group would not suffer any penalty, unless it was shown that you deliberately and willfully contributed to the leaking of said material. The question of whether their litigation counsel would pursue the case, or any case would be a up to them, and would have to weigh the positive and negative impacts of pursuing such a course of action, as well as the likelihood of winning in the local court for the individual who leaked it, and the legal costs involved as well.
They stand on much better legal ground in terms of preventing you from distributing your project, but the demand to remove the instructions on Temporal Flux has little legal basis on it. While I would advise you to seek free legal counseling, a partial compliance would be the best bet, comply with delaying the release, but I would strongly advise against the destruction of any content. In fact, at this point it might be best for this to actually go to their litigation counsel, who would probably be more likely to listen then the legal team which assembled the letter, which in many companies is at the bottom of the food chain. Again, I cannot state strongly enough how important it is to get free legal counsel, which is offered by several groups including Justice Corps, to name an example in the United States.
It must be kept in mind that copyright law is not internationally universal, and that different countries have different laws in place regarding what constitutes fair use. The letter is legally sound to a point, however one must gain a clear understanding of the situation prior to committing to any action, and requesting a face to face meeting might not be out of the question, and may in fact yield more encouraging results, while in a worst case scenario, the results will be the same as they currently are.

Sincerely,
D.S.
UCLA

thesnake383

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Re: Straight Talk Express with FW...Next Stop: Truth
« Reply #4 on: May 13, 2009, 11:37:51 am »
In its current state of 98% complete, can the game be beaten? If so, I look forward to an entire series of videos featuring the entire game.

utunnels

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Re: Straight Talk Express with FW...Next Stop: Truth
« Reply #5 on: May 13, 2009, 12:02:11 pm »
Rumor 1: "Crimson Echoes was a piece of vaporware. The modders made this C&D up because they knew they would never finish something so ambitious!"
This sounds like the most reasonable one...
When JP PMed me on early May about music insertion, I though: wow, they are finally about to finish it!
But then I waited for somedays, no further actions... I began to have a bad feeling that something went wrong.


FaustWolf

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Re: Straight Talk Express with FW...Next Stop: Truth
« Reply #6 on: May 13, 2009, 01:44:40 pm »
There were a ton of bugs, and sometimes showstoppers meant footage had to be re-recorded after those were taken care of (I was kind of embarrassed to record Ayla trying to run around on a black screen and failing at one point). However, we have footage from a full playthrough, plus most of the ending IIRC. We caught a few alternate endings on New Game + too, but not all of them. Wish I'd recorded every bit now, but hopefully what we have will convince everyone.

utunnels, the CE team hadn't started at all on music insertion, but I think ZeaLitY, JP, and Chrono'99 had a list of tracks they were interested in seeing put in. Finals preparation really put a damper on most of the team too I bet, which would explain the slowness starting in early May. Even so, May 31 always seemed a very realistic release date.

People have actually thought we were taking donations. I have no clue where that idea came from, but if you guys see any destructive rumors like that from now on, just hand them the link to the first post.
http://www.chronocompendium.com/Forums/index.php/topic,7437.msg160941.html#msg160941

We'll add more rumors and rebuttals as we see them, so you can use this thread to report rumors as well.
« Last Edit: May 13, 2009, 01:47:53 pm by FaustWolf »

vicbear

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Re: Straight Talk Express with FW...Next Stop: Truth
« Reply #7 on: May 13, 2009, 01:55:56 pm »
In its current state of 98% complete, can the game be beaten? If so, I look forward to an entire series of videos featuring the entire game.

Hello, I'm new to the forums but I am a frequent visitor of the compendium. I'm really sorry about the events that have transpired and hope the best for the CE team and Compendium staff.

I totally agree with the quote above. Could we get some video footage, or a plot summary, or even the script of the game (as long as it isn't illegal)? At least let the story be told to the world in the form of fan-fiction!

odekam

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Re: Straight Talk Express with the Compendium...Next Stop: Truth
« Reply #8 on: May 14, 2009, 04:14:53 pm »
Quote
We are unaware of any copy protection placed on Chrono Trigger SNES, at least in the sense that the ROM might try to sabotage itself during the backup process (format shifting the game from an SNES cart to a ROM). Such copy protection did exist in Chrono Trigger: DS -- in that case, people who made backups of their game discovered that the game would freeze in an emulator at certain points -- but Crimson Echoes had absolutely nothing to do with CT:DS.

As for whether format shifting itself is considered fair use, Guru of Life Emeritus Geiger reminded us of what's stated in the Electronic Frontier Foundation's Fair Use FAQ:


What's been recognized as fair use?

Courts have previously found that a use was fair where the use of the copyrighted work was socially beneficial. In particular, U.S. courts have recognized the following fair uses: criticism, comment, news reporting, teaching, scholarship, research and parodies.

In addition, in 1984 the Supreme Court held that time-shifting (for example, private, non-commercial home taping of television programs with a VCR to permit later viewing) is fair use. (Sony Corporation of America v. Universal City Studios, 464 U.S. 417 (1984, S.C.)

Although the legal basis is not completely settled, many lawyers believe that the following (and many other uses) are also fair uses:


Space-shifting or format-shifting - that is, taking content you own in one format and putting it into another format, for personal, non-commercial use. For instance, "ripping" an audio CD (that is, making an MP3-format version of an audio CD that you already own) is considered fair use by many lawyers, based on the 1984 Betamax decision and the 1999 Rio MP3 player decision (RIAA v. Diamond Multimedia, 180 F. 3d 1072, 1079, 9th Circ. 1999.)
Making a personal back-up copy of content you own - for instance, burning a copy of an audio CD you own.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but according with that, it seems to me that you guys are doing nothing wrong.

FaustWolf

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Re: Straight Talk Express with the Compendium...Next Stop: Truth
« Reply #9 on: May 14, 2009, 04:23:19 pm »
Now that I take a look at all the facts and the legal theories that are actually out there, I would agree. However, the case:

M. Kramer Manufacturing Company, Inc. v. Andrews (1986)

Would be all that stands against the Compendium. I'm trying to find the language right now in a law database, because it's not easily accessible like Nintendo vs. Galoob. I wonder, now, whether Kramer v. Andrews wouldn't be overturned by Nintendo v. Galoob.

RySenkari

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Re: Straight Talk Express with the Compendium...Next Stop: Truth
« Reply #10 on: May 14, 2009, 04:28:36 pm »
The thing is that even if you guys know you're right and can release it knowing that you'll win the lawsuit, you'd still have to find someone to fight the lawsuit for you, right? I seem to recall some of you saying that even if you knew you could win, fighting a lawsuit would take a lot of time away from your personal lives... so that'd be where something like the EFF comes in.

mav

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Re: Straight Talk Express with the Compendium...Next Stop: Truth
« Reply #11 on: May 14, 2009, 04:33:22 pm »
Right, but even if EFF fights for them, it'll still get in the way of their lives. Look at how dealing with the C&D has gotten in the way: it's on their minds constantly, they have to repetitively debunk rumors, they're bombarded with information...it's already gotten in the way and this is just the beginning. As good as advocacy groups like EFF are, they still rely on the people involved.

odekam

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Re: Straight Talk Express with the Compendium...Next Stop: Truth
« Reply #12 on: May 14, 2009, 04:34:24 pm »
I see... so it would be like... wasting 5 years of hard work, or would be like fighting many years to not waste those 5 years of hard work.

Dark Serge

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Re: Straight Talk Express with the Compendium...Next Stop: Truth
« Reply #13 on: May 14, 2009, 04:36:32 pm »
They owe it to themselves though. While I respect their wish to announce the C&D publicly all over the web, it kind of went over the top. They could have stayed low key and this wouldn't be time consuming at all. As for the lawsuit, you watch too many movies. A lawsuit like that isn't gonna take 5 years. Neither Square Enix, nor the lawyers, nor the judge, nor you want to waste years of your life for a lawsuit about a SNES game mod.

thesnake383

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Re: Straight Talk Express with the Compendium...Next Stop: Truth
« Reply #14 on: May 14, 2009, 04:39:32 pm »
The news officially reached Sonic Cult/X-Cult. The word is out all over the net.

This'll be the last time I mention this, but seriously, you ought to finish the hack, and release the patch as a final slap to Square's face.