Straight Talk Express with the Compendium...Next Stop: Truth

[phelph]

...Soooo, yeah. That probably has something to do with why we're taking leaks so seriously and banning people even for toying around and posting false leaks.

take a deep breath and realize: the creators would never lose 150,000 dollars on this. Look at youtube, before google bought it legal threats werent holding a drop of water, why? there were plenty of infringements there, but the owners of youtube didnt have any money worth seizing. By your logic the original owners of youtube shouldv lost millions and millions that they didnt have out of thin air, 150k per infrigement. It was only after a company like google bought it which had real assets did legal threats even start to become a real issue.

[RySenkari]

I highly doubt Square would sue even if the game was released, but they still can't take that small chance. Again, it's like playing Russian Roulette.

[teaflower]

Phelph, I must point out something wrong with your Prophet's Guile example. Sure, Prophet's Guile is still out there, but that's not what we're dealing with. Prophet's Guile was already released onto the internet, and once it's out there, there ain't nothing no one can do about it. They simply asked us to remove Prophet's Guile from our site. Which we did.

Now, Crimson Echoes is incomplete. It hasn't been distributed to anyone outside of the producers and the beta team. Square Enix asked us to destroy Crimson Echoes, and we followed with there demands. If a copy of CE were to be leaked, ultimately it would come from the beta team, who got it from JP and Z. So then they get hit with the fines.

We can't just say they don't care. That's giving up. This is our dream. We have done so much to see it come to fruition, and we came so far. We are EVERYWHERE. Digg. Reddit. Facebook. G4. EVERYWHERE. Pretty soon they'll catch on, hopefully, and maybe make a statement.

Show them what radical dreamers are all about!

[quintin3265]

Someone above criticized me for saying that I'm some sort of "Internet zombie" who just comes to forums and attacks others.  What I was trying to do is to get people to look at the money.  Hopefully people won't take the wrong impression off what I'm about to say and will look solely at the numbers, which is the point of this post.

A software engineer I know makes $68,000/yr, far more than anyone should reasonably make, and I'll assume that's the going rate for a software engineer.  He is incredibly, incredibly lucky in that money doesn't mean all that much to him, and he doesn't want to waste it on things he don't need.  He saves 50% of income.  Nobody should need that kind of money "just to survive."

Someone who is able to create a game like this is obviously far more talented than he is, so the developers here could work for an even higher salary.  They put four years into the game.  But if you do the math, four years of work is worth more than $150,000 just in excess income alone, even if the fine were guaranteed to be set at that maximum amount.  So when I say that they should consider taking a risk (but not daring Square to sue outright, which is a sure way to lose), you need to look at their financial situation, not your situation or the situation of someone who is less fortunate.  If I had that kind of talent, a lawsuit like that isn't even going to cause bankruptcy, assuming that the money hasn't been wasted on luxury cars or enormous houses.  They could still live comfortably even if the worst happened.

To most people here, the money is a big deal.  But to people whose skills are so valuable, money doesn't mean as much to them.  What would you rather do - buy a Jaguar, or take a chance and release something that you love and spent 8,000 hours working on?

[MDenham]

A software engineer I know makes $68,000/yr, far more than anyone should reasonably make

Your opinion of what people should "reasonably" make depresses me.

[Dark Serge]

Phelph, I must point out something wrong with your Prophet's Guile example. Sure, Prophet's Guile is still out there, but that's not what we're dealing with. Prophet's Guile was already released onto the internet, and once it's out there, there ain't nothing no one can do about it. They simply asked us to remove Prophet's Guile from our site. Which we did.

Now, Crimson Echoes is incomplete. It hasn't been distributed to anyone outside of the producers and the beta team. Square Enix asked us to destroy Crimson Echoes, and we followed with there demands. If a copy of CE were to be leaked, ultimately it would come from the beta team, who got it from JP and Z. So then they get hit with the fines.

We can't just say they don't care. That's giving up. This is our dream. We have done so much to see it come to fruition, and we came so far. We are EVERYWHERE. Digg. Reddit. Facebook. G4. EVERYWHERE. Pretty soon they'll catch on, hopefully, and maybe make a statement.

Show them what radical dreamers are all about!

Internet publicity is allright but does SE really care? I think the time has come and this news needs to hit a magazine. I'm talking EDGE or Games TM. If even big names like that pay attention to this, maybe SE will finally cringe.

Actually, I suggest you all try to contact as much games magazines as you know and pass this news over to them. Give them the facts though, make sure there are no misunderstandings.

[zoinkity]

There is always the "Ms. Pacman" route.  Has anyone pursued handing Square the finished product and allow full rights for them to sell it, no strings attached?  At this point, after so much work, distribution is really the issue.
Realistically-speaking, mainline distribution would place the game in far more hands--especially if it made it to xbox live or virtual console.

+_+

At the very least, you can always distribute a (textual) fanficton of the "make your own adventure" sort.  The story, after all, is your own. 

[KebreI]

Actually, I suggest you all try to contact as much games magazines as you know and pass this news over to them. Give them the facts though, make sure there are no misunderstandings.

The deadline is coming up, if we wait too long then its no longer news. Issues are for June will be out in two-three weeks. In all honesty we should get Agent12 to write a general letter then send it of to all major magazines, with in a week. Most have a contact for new, hot stories, or sudden developments.

On its own though its not quite enough for some magazines, so maybe tie to other C&D(CT:R, 2D Zelda:OOT, etc.)

There is always the "Ms. Pacman" route.  Has anyone pursued handing Square the finished product and allow full rights for them to sell it, no strings attached?  At this point, after so much work, distribution is really the issue.
Realistically-speaking, mainline distribution would place the game in far more hands--especially if it made it to xbox live or virtual console.

They already tried to offer it up to them, but I don't think SE accepted it.

[Dark Serge]

Perhaps Square Enix thinks the Chrono Trigger engine from the SNES is outdated, as compared to the touch screen features in CT:DS, and they don't want people to think CT is downgrading. Perhaps they're too lazy to port it over to the DS.

[thesnake383]

Perhaps Square Enix thinks the Chrono Trigger engine from the SNES is outdated, as compared to the touch screen features in CT:DS, and they don't want people to think CT is downgrading. Perhaps they're too lazy to port it over to the DS.

What about the Megaman 9 route? Could it be possible that they could take the idea and release it for WiiWare?

[kattrali]

Maybe SE feels weird about a few fans completing a polished game in as much time as it takes them to complete yet another iteration of a well-worn franchise.  Seriously, I don't know why new games need to look "shinier" or more visually stunning anymore. Content is where it counts.  I don't think  I've thought of a game's characters as heroes or memorable since CT, FF6, and OoT.

...I think I said all that just to say that the "Megaman 9" route would be amazing, though in my heart of hearts I want to load it on a cartridge and play with my favorite purple-buttoned controller.

[Dark Serge]

Perhaps Square Enix thinks the Chrono Trigger engine from the SNES is outdated, as compared to the touch screen features in CT:DS, and they don't want people to think CT is downgrading. Perhaps they're too lazy to port it over to the DS.

What about the Megaman 9 route? Could it be possible that they could take the idea and release it for WiiWare?

No way, they probably don't even want to acknowledge it

[Panzer88]

as a preface, I am not suggesting anything.

that said, I believe that this action by SE legal was probably mostly to kill the hype, the word of mouth, the knowledge of the game to the mass market, and also to discourage game modification to the mass market. They don't want the vast majority of gamers to know about this and they certainly don't want more gamers creating content off of their IPs.

As you can see if a project is fairly low key then it gets no attention but when it is making headlines then it is a problem to them, gamers everywhere know about it and therefore they have to address it.

I would say that (and I'm not SUGGESTING it, just speculating) if this hack, or one much like it, were to come out a year or two from now, with no fanfare or publicity, then it would be completely ignored, if it was released to the fans of chrono compendium and other romhacking sites and spread modestly through word of mouth by those people on message boards, IRC, instant message and talking and phoning among friends then it would be ignored like so many other major rom hacks.

the main problem with this was the mainstream visibility, and I don't think it's that out of the question to say that if the same project was released much later, or another project done, that it would be ignored.

Thoughts?

I'm not trying to suggest any action, nor insult anyone, merely thinking about what made this different, I mean there have been many very in depth long hacks done before such as Metroid Redesign and Zelda Parallel Worlds but they had no C&D, I think it is when something is publicized that it really gets into deep water.

[Rickets]

as a preface, I am not suggesting anything.

that said, I believe that this action by SE legal was probably mostly to kill the hype, the word of mouth, the knowledge of the game to the mass market, and also to discourage game modification to the mass market. They don't want the vast majority of gamers to know about this and they certainly don't want more gamers creating content off of their IPs.

As you can see if a project is fairly low key then it gets no attention but when it is making headlines then it is a problem to them, gamers everywhere know about it and therefore they have to address it.

I would say that (and I'm not SUGGESTING it, just speculating) if this hack, or one much like it, were to come out a year or two from now, with no fanfare or publicity, then it would be completely ignored, if it was released to the fans of chrono compendium and other romhacking sites and spread modestly through word of mouth by those people on message boards, IRC, instant message and talking and phoning among friends then it would be ignored like so many other major rom hacks.

the main problem with this was the mainstream visibility, and I don't think it's that out of the question to say that if the same project was released much later, or another project done, that it would be ignored.

Thoughts?

I'm not trying to suggest any action, nor insult anyone, merely thinking about what made this different, I mean there have been many very in depth long hacks done before such as Metroid Redesign and Zelda Parallel Worlds but they had no C&D, I think it is when something is publicized that it really gets into deep water.

I think this is dead on. I hate to say it, but CE was made out to be too big of a deal... I now think of CE as Fight Club and we broke the 1st and 2nd rule. Had we not released it a year from now under a different name and story alterations at a separate site and taken zero credit for it we may have gotten away with it... if it weren't for those sniveling corporations.

[Boo the Gentleman Caller]

Had it been released without any marketing, the entire release would have occurred smoothly.  And there probably wouldn't have been any post-release problems...

However...  What's done is done, so there's no point making "what if" or "had we just..." statements.

Now we face tomorrow.  We face the beautiful future.