Author Topic: Explain Serge's Silence.  (Read 5233 times)

V_Translanka

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Re: Explain Serge's Silence.
« Reply #15 on: June 13, 2009, 06:34:46 am »
Then throw in a few different portrait pics. Do more of them FMVs (is it just me or did FFs of the time have at least 10x the amount of FMV content that CC did?)...something!
« Last Edit: June 13, 2009, 06:36:35 am by V_Translanka »

kid123

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Re: Explain Serge's Silence.
« Reply #16 on: June 13, 2009, 06:50:34 am »
Then throw in a few different portrait pics. Do more of them FMVs (is it just me or did FFs of the time have at least 10x the amount of FMV content that CC did?)...something!

Where do you suppose to put the portrait pics? Serge didn't has dialogue boxes except at Temporal Distortion Dimension (Sprigg home) and all Dark Serge's. FMV has large data size, I afraid 2 disc capacity isn't enough, me think. And is it really important to show all single reaction through each FMV? FMV are made up when it really necessary. IMO I hate massive FMV filled RPG.


mav

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Re: Explain Serge's Silence.
« Reply #17 on: June 13, 2009, 09:10:11 pm »
I've played games with four discs; it's no big deal. Hardware limitations aren't exactly an excuse to skimp out on things like FMVs, and more portraits, etc. I do agree that having too many FMVs can be a bother, but CC didn't have enough to begin with, in my opinion. And as far as alternate portraits goes, think about it, how drastic would it be to have a dialog box that just says "What the?" with a confused Serge portrait? Hell, during most people's first playthrough, do they see Serge's grave and think "ah yes, this all makes perfect sense!" Probably not.

V_Translanka

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Re: Explain Serge's Silence.
« Reply #18 on: June 13, 2009, 09:35:43 pm »
A dialog box with "..." in it is fine by me if there's a portrait expressing emotion by it. Something is better than him standing there like a schmuck.

IAmSerge

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Re: Explain Serge's Silence.
« Reply #19 on: June 13, 2009, 09:49:44 pm »
^^^ Sorry, V.  I truly am.  I really just couldn't pass up the opportunity, I mean you set yourself up for it...

But on topic, I really just think that he was the silent protagonist because:

A: it was the norm at the time (and somewhat still is)

B: like already previously stated, to make the player feel more like the character.

mav

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Re: Explain Serge's Silence.
« Reply #20 on: June 14, 2009, 01:41:53 pm »
Was it really the norm at the time though? Are you comparing this to video-games in general or RPGs? You may be right, but I'd still like some clarity.

And as far as the player feeling like the character goes, that's fine and dandy when the player can relate to the character on multiple levels. Yes, it's one thing to have your personal reactions act as the character's, but when that character has such a grandiose backstory that no person can relate to, how does that make the player feel more like the character?

I think the issue here isn't so much Serge's silence as it is his complete lack of expression.

IAmSerge

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Re: Explain Serge's Silence.
« Reply #21 on: June 14, 2009, 04:28:51 pm »
ok, I may have bluffed a little.  I dont actually know what the "norm" is, or was at the time either.

But personally, if Serge had lines, I would feel a lot LESS connected to him.

MDenham

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Re: Explain Serge's Silence.
« Reply #22 on: June 14, 2009, 06:13:06 pm »
The answer, of course, is that Serge is a deaf-mute.


If you actually believe this, fine (I guess), but if I may use this to remind everyone: this is the Analysis forum. It's for actual discussion of the series, not posts you believe are funny & original (believe me, they aren't, this series is older than a lot of the community here). So, in closing, back it up, people. I'm sorry, but the "he's mute" thing doesn't work for either Crono or Serge as they both say things, introduce themselves, etc. through their respective games...
~V_Translanka

« Last Edit: January 06, 2010, 06:28:02 am by V_Translanka »

Celdine

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Re: Explain Serge's Silence.
« Reply #23 on: June 14, 2009, 06:18:52 pm »
... And as far as the player feeling like the character goes, that's fine and dandy when the player can relate to the character on multiple levels. Yes, it's one thing to have your personal reactions act as the character's, but when that character has such a grandiose backstory that no person can relate to, how does that make the player feel more like the character?

I think the issue here isn't so much Serge's silence as it is his complete lack of expression.

I was actually thinking about this on my way home from work today, and I think I have to agree. Given how emotionally invested Serge is in the things happening around him, a little bit of character may have been in order.

Then again, if they messed up his characterization it would have just made things worse. /shrug

Xenterex

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Re: Explain Serge's Silence.
« Reply #24 on: June 19, 2009, 02:26:41 am »
Silent Protagonist isn't so much about feeling connected to the main character as it is feeling connected to the story, and the protagonist is a communicative medium.  The silence is a means to reduce conversational redundancy, yet still be able to convey information the characters might know (that the player would not) without it being an awkward 4th wall moment; and make the player feel the decisions they make are actually theirs to make, and thus have an impact on the story.

Conversely, think of how lame it is in a game to be given an option that the game won't let you progress no matter how many times you select that option.  It's a total waste, and essentially the exact opposite of having an option oriented character with decisions to make.  Furthermore, the lack of a direct 'voice' makes it plausible for these various decisions to be valid in how the player perceives the character of the protagonist.  Which, when done right, works really well in rpg's as it gives the players a feel IN the story and not around it.  Thats part of the advantage I'd say a game can have over say a novelization or even a movie.  Take Xenosaga as an example of the opposite end of the spectrum.  Here you have vocal characters that are over voiced so the few roads left to the player are either a) redundant b) uncharacteristic or c) lies.  Toss into too many fmv's and Xenosaga just comes off as an obnoxious movie the requires button mashing to advance. 

However, Cross's big mistake is not given Serge an alternative expressive outlet, which a silent protagonist still needs to have.  Jak did (when he was an actual mute) Crono did, Mario did, and there are other cases too, but I think those are the most well known examples of 'silent protagonist' that have more good done than annoyances.

IshitoxRuchianna

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Re: Explain Serge's Silence.
« Reply #25 on: October 01, 2009, 05:41:52 pm »
I think he's silent because everyone else just never gives him the chance to speak. :lol:

IshitoxRuchianna

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Re: Explain Serge's Silence.
« Reply #26 on: October 08, 2009, 09:13:56 pm »
I've been wondering why Serge is silent. Is it because he is you, the player of the game? Or is that how he truly is? There are other RPGs that have protagonists that speak, and their characters are developed and clearly seen.

Serge's character is kind of unclear to me. Of course, I get the protagonist bit and that he's a good person, but what else is he?  :|
I've been browsing the fanfic archive at www.fanfiction.net. Some fics show him as silent, good natured. But the badly written ones show him as a person who shouts. Some show him as gay,  :o  some show him as... OOC.  :picardno Anyway.... HOw can you explain Serge's silence?

There are waaaaaaaay too many Chrono Cross yaoi pairings out there. It's really quite frightening if you think about it.  :picardno >shudders<

JforJayson

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Re: Explain Serge's Silence.
« Reply #27 on: October 14, 2009, 07:43:32 am »
I think you're supposed to imprint your own reactions onto serge as if you were in his position... why did no one else get that?

Pierre es cargot

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Re: Explain Serge's Silence.
« Reply #28 on: December 05, 2009, 01:37:06 pm »
The purpose of the silent protagonist is that you can envision their reaction the way you would react. I actually enjoy the silent protagonists. Or at least the ones who do not speak much. It mor current RPG's like Final Fantasy X Tidus talks quite a bit, and I couldn't really relate with him. He seemed to me to be very bothersome. For that reason alone I almost didn't like the game. I think the protagonist being silent keeps people from hating them, and therefor the game. However it seems some people hate their silence as well. I thought Chrono Cross was a great game. More character development would have been great for some of the more prevalent characters though. I've heard many people disliked Kid who was one of the most developed in the game, but I thought she was great. I liked Serge but mostly because I granted him most of the qualities I liked in myself and few of the one I didn't.

ChaosIX

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Re: Explain Serge's Silence.
« Reply #29 on: January 04, 2010, 11:31:23 pm »
I definitely saw the pattern, there. With the whole silent protagonist thing. I never once questioned why Crono did not speak, save for when you made a choice or when he gestured, and introduced himself. But in my opinion, there's no reason for Serge NOT to speak. As far as I can tell, he can hear, and can speak, as Serge/Lynx had clearly demonstrated by using his voice-"Box". (  :) ) So, to me, in certain areas of the game,  it does take away from the overall feeling. What's the point of having dialogue YOU need to react to if the main character himself shows no real expression towards what just occurred?
That said, he definitely COULD speak if he wanted to. . .But I think the purpose of his silence is simply because Crono did it first. ;]
That, or...Maybe all heroes of time/space are required to take an oath of silence 99% of the time.  :o