The Month That Could Have Been Announcement

[Corpse69]

you know that sounds good but that's just my opinion KebreI

[Mikisho]

Someone asked if I'd be willing to give a lawyer 100's of bucks (probably more) to study this case.

I don't have that kind of money or I would.

But...

if the team ever put up a donation bar?  Hell yeah I'd submit 50-100 bucks to contribute.  If I paid that much for a copy of Chrono Cross then I'd sure as hell contribute this much to help with a game like this.

All the donations could go to legal fees- and anything left over could go to charity, seems simple enough and certainly "non-profit" enough to help against SE's false claims they continue to believe from that dickhead Dark Serge.


To everyone else who's afraid of going against SE, sometimes people gotta fight for what's right- I don't believe in quitting.  To whoever makes a decision, it all depends on how personally important their hard work is to them.  Nobody spends years on a game like this hoping or expecting a company like SE to pull a major dick-move like this.  

Besides, you shouldn't all believe how much authority SE's lawyers claim it is how hard they claim they can crap lightning down from above.  Do we know for certain?  No we don't- so we should stop assuming the worst-possible scenario.  We'd need someone with legal expertise in gaming to look at this and explain things further.  If we just ask SE's lawyers then of course they'll claim virtually unlimited powers to punish and abuse the team in the event of a leak.  Doesn't mean it's true though- just means that that's their fancy lawyer talk for claiming a higher than thou position in court and that we need to find out where the real truth lies.

Likely, it's not as bad as what SE claims, but who knows?  We need some legal experts in gaming expertise to help us.  Everyone, stop assuming the worst case scenario or automatically trusting whatever the lawyers at SE tell us to believe.  It may not be the best-case scenario either, but it requires more investigation to offer up a final analysis.


Nevertheless, I respect the Team's decision.  My hatred is reserved solely for Dark Serge (may he be raped by Ozzy and Lavos for all eternity) and the tools at SE responsible for this decision and those who support it there.

Hopefully someday the team will decide that it is the "right" time to release their labor of love.

They had no intention of getting any sort of money off of this, and have stated that they have no intention of starting it ever.....  oooooh you're lucky I'm in a happy frame of mind at the moment, or else I'd be going Ape**** on you xD.  But, the prickyness shall be hidden for now.......

[1stoftheLast]

Sorry to be dragging up things that should just go away but I'd like a chance to refute some of the claims made in this thread.

I personally know of a guy who was pirating movies not for profit and was caught and sentenced to six months in jail(thanks to overcrowding shortened to three).  I don't know if he was also subject to fines, but if so they weren't in the hundred thousand range.

People can be sent to jail and can probably be fined as well.

[Ramsus]

Someone asked if I'd be willing to give a lawyer 100's of bucks (probably more) to study this case.

I don't have that kind of money or I would.

But...

if the team ever put up a donation bar?  Hell yeah I'd submit 50-100 bucks to contribute.  If I paid that much for a copy of Chrono Cross then I'd sure as hell contribute this much to help with a game like this.

All the donations could go to legal fees- and anything left over could go to charity, seems simple enough and certainly "non-profit" enough to help against SE's false claims they continue to believe from that dickhead Dark Serge.


To everyone else who's afraid of going against SE, sometimes people gotta fight for what's right- I don't believe in quitting.  To whoever makes a decision, it all depends on how personally important their hard work is to them.  Nobody spends years on a game like this hoping or expecting a company like SE to pull a major dick-move like this.  

Besides, you shouldn't all believe how much authority SE's lawyers claim it is how hard they claim they can crap lightning down from above.  Do we know for certain?  No we don't- so we should stop assuming the worst-possible scenario.  We'd need someone with legal expertise in gaming to look at this and explain things further.  If we just ask SE's lawyers then of course they'll claim virtually unlimited powers to punish and abuse the team in the event of a leak.  Doesn't mean it's true though- just means that that's their fancy lawyer talk for claiming a higher than thou position in court and that we need to find out where the real truth lies.

Likely, it's not as bad as what SE claims, but who knows?  We need some legal experts in gaming expertise to help us.  Everyone, stop assuming the worst case scenario or automatically trusting whatever the lawyers at SE tell us to believe.  It may not be the best-case scenario either, but it requires more investigation to offer up a final analysis.


Nevertheless, I respect the Team's decision.  My hatred is reserved solely for Dark Serge (may he be raped by Ozzy and Lavos for all eternity) and the tools at SE responsible for this decision and those who support it there.

Hopefully someday the team will decide that it is the "right" time to release their labor of love.

This isn't about fear. Nobody's afraid of a bunch of old, out of touch guys in suits here. You're missing the point if you think that's what this comes down to.

You've obviously never been at a vulnerable point in your life where going off and pursuing something else ruins your current plans and makes them impossible to pick back up again. That's where most of the individuals involved in this are at in their lives right now, and this game being released in the near future isn't nearly as important to them as their current life plans and dreams. As such, they're simply taking the safe path for right now.

Show a little patience and understanding, and remember that this is a public forum that anyone can read. This is not the place to be planning alternatives, and any suggestions and plans you throw out there will have to be ignored by JP and Z, so they can't be implicated if they don't work out. In other words, every time you post a suggestion or idea here, it becomes that much less likely to happen.

And obviously nobody's giving up on anything right now. Stop being a stupid, impatient shit who assumes everything in life is so transparent that nobody's thought about the same things you have just because they aren't discussing them out in public.

Statutory copyright infringement can be tried as a federal misdemeanor in criminal court under some circumstances, resulting in a possible $30,000 fine and 1 year in jail.

No copyright infringement case in the United States has ever resulted in a penalty nearly that severe. Even in cases where jail time was involved, it was actual bootlegging of DVDs, like recording movies from the theater and such. This would never, ever, ever result in jail time.

And chances are we wouldn't get much in the way of fines and penalties even if we did go to court, but it's on the books and those are the risks involved. You can say they aren't likely, but you can't say they're impossible.

[Geowil]

Sorry to be dragging up things that should just go away but I'd like a chance to refute some of the claims made in this thread.

I personally know of a guy who was pirating movies not for profit and was caught and sentenced to six months in jail(thanks to overcrowding shortened to three).  I don't know if he was also subject to fines, but if so they weren't in the hundred thousand range.

People can be sent to jail and can probably be fined as well.

yeah the defacto sentences for copyright infringement (maybe this is for federal offenses only) as far as I know are fines up to 250k and up to 5 years in federal prison.  got it from the fbi's piracy website.  but it is surprising that there have been very few cases of jail time.

[Glenn27]

Someone asked if I'd be willing to give a lawyer 100's of bucks (probably more) to study this case.

I don't have that kind of money or I would.

But...

if the team ever put up a donation bar?  Hell yeah I'd submit 50-100 bucks to contribute.  If I paid that much for a copy of Chrono Cross then I'd sure as hell contribute this much to help with a game like this.

All the donations could go to legal fees- and anything left over could go to charity, seems simple enough and certainly "non-profit" enough to help against SE's false claims they continue to believe from that dickhead Dark Serge.


To everyone else who's afraid of going against SE, sometimes people gotta fight for what's right- I don't believe in quitting.  To whoever makes a decision, it all depends on how personally important their hard work is to them.  Nobody spends years on a game like this hoping or expecting a company like SE to pull a major dick-move like this.  

Besides, you shouldn't all believe how much authority SE's lawyers claim it is how hard they claim they can crap lightning down from above.  Do we know for certain?  No we don't- so we should stop assuming the worst-possible scenario.  We'd need someone with legal expertise in gaming to look at this and explain things further.  If we just ask SE's lawyers then of course they'll claim virtually unlimited powers to punish and abuse the team in the event of a leak.  Doesn't mean it's true though- just means that that's their fancy lawyer talk for claiming a higher than thou position in court and that we need to find out where the real truth lies.

Likely, it's not as bad as what SE claims, but who knows?  We need some legal experts in gaming expertise to help us.  Everyone, stop assuming the worst case scenario or automatically trusting whatever the lawyers at SE tell us to believe.  It may not be the best-case scenario either, but it requires more investigation to offer up a final analysis.


Nevertheless, I respect the Team's decision.  My hatred is reserved solely for Dark Serge (may he be raped by Ozzy and Lavos for all eternity) and the tools at SE responsible for this decision and those who support it there.

Hopefully someday the team will decide that it is the "right" time to release their labor of love.

They had no intention of getting any sort of money off of this, and have stated that they have no intention of starting it ever.....  oooooh you're lucky I'm in a happy frame of mind at the moment, or else I'd be going Ape**** on you xD.  But, the prickyness shall be hidden for now.......

There's a difference between -making money selling games- and asking for -free donations to pay solely for legal costs-.  I didn't suggest they try to sell copies of their mod.

Try to be in a more discerning frame of mind when reading something.


Ie, if someone ran a Harry Potter fanfiction site and had a donation bar to buy a new cat or something then J.K. Rowling could not sue them.  If they were charging money to read the stories only then she could.

[SilentP]

The commentary is Youtube annotations (not our voices ).

It actually improves the videos I think, they are usually added during boring parts like walking around the OW.

--JP

Oh, awesome.  That's totally fine then, nm.

[Happy-Dude]

Oh man, this thread is becoming another convoluted gathering of hope, desperation, and speculation again...

I'd just like to cite Square-Enix's own Corporate Philosophy, originally found here: http://www.square-enix.com/eng/company/philosophy.html. I've italicized what I believe to be especially important passages...

Corporate Philosophy
To spread happiness across the globe by providing unforgettable experiences

This philosophy represents our company’s mission and the beliefs for which we stand. Each of our customers has his or her own definition of happiness. Square Enix provides high-quality content, services, and products to help those customers create their own wonderful, unforgettable experiences, thereby allowing them to discover a happiness all their own.

Management Guidelines

These guidelines reflect the foundation of principles upon which our corporate philosophy stands, and serve as a standard of value for the Group and its members. We shall strive to achieve our corporate goals while closely considering the following:

1. Professionalism
We shall exhibit a high degree of professionalism, ensuring optimum results in the workplace. We shall display initiative, make continued efforts to further develop our expertise, and remain sincere and steadfast in the pursuit of our goals, while ultimately aspiring to forge a corporate culture disciplined by the pride we hold in our work.

2. Creativity and Innovation
To attain and maintain new standards of value, there are questions we must ask ourselves: Is this creative? Is this innovative?
Mediocre dedication can only result in mediocre achievements. Simply being content with the status quo can only lead to a collapse into oblivion. To prevent this from occurring and to avoid complacency, we must continue asking ourselves the aforementioned questions.

3. Harmony
Everything in the world interacts to form a massive system. Nothing can stand alone.
Everything functions with an inevitable accord to reason. It is vital to gain a proper understanding of the constantly changing tides, and to take advantage of these variations instead of struggling against them. We shall continue to work towards harmony and serve as an integral part of this ever-fluctuating system.

In order to achieve ideal performance levels, we as individuals, shall aim for a mutual respect amongst our coworkers, remain conscious of the duties assigned us, and place an emphasis on teamwork.
As a corporate organization, we shall work diligently to maintain an optimal balance culminating in the ultimate satisfaction of all our stakeholders, including customers, shareholders, counterparties, and employees.
As a business entity, we shall contemplate what functions we are to perform within the realm of industry, while acting in a manner that ensures the mutual harmony and benefit of all parties within it.
Finally, as a member of society, we shall comply with laws and regulations while fulfilling our civic obligations, including community involvement and environmental conservation.

If the CE team ever wishes to go to the courts -- this is actually a REALLY REALLY strong argument. In addition to the other copyright cases (and not to mention that this is only fan work), it gets pretty solid. Still its a grey area...

Whatever. Best of luck. I'm still waiting for an official statement from SE (and only then will I move on). Unless, of course, the CE team decides to fight this out longer. Whichever the case post-reponse-from-SE -- you have my backing.

[Corpse69]

i agree happy-dude 

-_- this is turning into the other thread slowly

any way my main concern is youtube may delete videos theyve been heavy on the removing lately i miss the days when youtube did nothing except porn

[V_Translanka]

...remember that this is a public forum that anyone can read. This is not the place to be planning alternatives, and any suggestions and plans you throw out there will have to be ignored by JP and Z, so they can't be implicated if they don't work out. In other words, every time you post a suggestion or idea here, it becomes that much less likely to happen.

Quoted for truth.

Besides, you shouldn't all believe how much authority SE's lawyers claim it is how hard they claim they can crap lightning down from above.  Do we know for certain?  No we don't- so we should stop assuming the worst-possible scenario.  We'd need someone with legal expertise in gaming to look at this and explain things further.  If we just ask SE's lawyers then of course they'll claim virtually unlimited powers to punish and abuse the team in the event of a leak.  Doesn't mean it's true though- just means that that's their fancy lawyer talk for claiming a higher than thou position in court and that we need to find out where the real truth lies.

Likely, it's not as bad as what SE claims, but who knows?  We need some legal experts in gaming expertise to help us.  Everyone, stop assuming the worst case scenario or automatically trusting whatever the lawyers at SE tell us to believe.  It may not be the best-case scenario either, but it requires more investigation to offer up a final analysis.

Quoted for idiocity. Yes, likely it's not as bad as it could be...based on what? Your hopes and dreams that the world is a nice, fluffy place where the rebels are always in the right and the man is keeping everyone down? I knew when you insulted the CE team by more or less calling them cowards that you were a mindless troll (meaning that I SHOULD ignore your ass), but damn, dude. YES, THIS IS MUTHA FUCKIN V TELLING SOMEONE ELSE TO GROW UP. Expect Hell to be a cold, cold place, bitches.

Stop being a stupid, impatient shit who assumes everything in life is so transparent that nobody's thought about the same things you have just because they aren't discussing them out in public.

Quoted for emphasis.

Also, where applicable, if you don't like the direction of the threads, you have the power to not read them. You have the power to report spam even! Or you can even help move the flow by contributing to discussion. Posting that you don't like the stupid discussion is stupider than the stupid discussion itself (no one quote my GameFAQs posts at me! ).

[Thought]

There's a difference between -making money selling games- and asking for -free donations to pay solely for legal costs-.  I didn't suggest they try to sell copies of their mod.

Try to be in a more discerning frame of mind when reading something.

Ie, if someone ran a Harry Potter fanfiction site and had a donation bar to buy a new cat or something then J.K. Rowling could not sue them.  If they were charging money to read the stories only then she could.

Yeah, that is bunk.

Rowling could sue the site either way for infringing on her copyright; heck, she could sue them even if they weren't taking any donations. The act of taking donations would mean that the limits on what she could sue for would increase, but that's neither here nor there if one would prefer to avoid court in the first place.

Also, an argument could still be made that any money raised for "legal actions" would be the result of the original copyright infringement and thus in turn be targeted.

[Roth Mantel]

Statutory copyright infringement can be tried as a federal misdemeanor in criminal court under some circumstances, resulting in a possible $30,000 fine and 1 year in jail.

While true, a criminal copyright infringment charge would have to be prosecuted by the federal government using public funds, not by SE. I would love to hear a conversation where SE tries to convince a federal prosecutor that a case like this would be worth expending their prosecutorial resources, which are already stretched extremely thin. Granted, I've seen some pretty absurd federal criminal prosecutions, such as one that reached the 7th circuit a month or two ago where the prosecutor's oral argument ended up consisting mostly of trying to avoid answering questions about what kind of penalty would deter such prosecutorial misconduct, but I don't think that's much of a genuine danger here.

The real threat, and the reason I would do the same thing if I were in the position of the CE team, is the substantial risk of being haled into court on a suit for civil damages. Even though the damages would likely be quite low even if their rather unprecedented legal theory was found to have merit, the costs and burdens of litigation are themselves too great a risk for a mere hobby. I am just grateful that we will have the opportunity to see much of the good work that has been done, even if we can't play it ourselves.

[Glenn27]

[quote author=I_Gnoramus
"Quoted for idiocity. Yes, likely it's not as bad as it could be...based on what? Your hopes and dreams that the world is a nice, fluffy place where the rebels are always in the right and the man is keeping everyone down? I knew when you insulted the CE team by more or less calling them cowards that you were a mindless troll (meaning that I SHOULD ignore your ass), but damn, dude. YES, THIS IS MUTHA FUCKIN V TELLING SOMEONE ELSE TO GROW UP. Expect Hell to be a cold, cold place, bitches."


I already gave the Donkey Kong/Nintendo example and explained how lawyers lied.  Also, that's a nice little idiot scenario you offered, but, like I said....


"Likely, it's not as bad as what SE claims, but who knows?  We need some legal experts in gaming expertise to help us.  Everyone, stop assuming the worst case scenario or automatically trusting whatever the lawyers at SE tell us to believe.  It may not be the best-case scenario either, but it requires more investigation to offer up a final analysis."


Learn how to read.  Also, learn how to spell, "idiocity" isn't even a real word.  And stop referring to yourself as "mutha fuckin" whatever, all you're doing is self-perpetuating your own "mutha fuckin" ignorance by referring to yourself in such a manner.



"Yeah, that is bunk.

Rowling could sue the site either way for infringing on her copyright; heck, she could sue them even if they weren't taking any donations. The act of taking donations would mean that the limits on what she could sue for would increase, but that's neither here nor there if one would prefer to avoid court in the first place.

Also, an argument could still be made that any money raised for "legal actions" would be the result of the original copyright infringement and thus in turn be targeted."


That's a moot point- authors generally don't go after fanfictions at all.  Also, there's nothing legally stopping you from asking for donations regardless of what's on your site.

There is a significant legal difference between selling a fanfiction product and having a donation bar asking people to send you free stuff.  It doesn't matter if the fanfiction is there or not, legally, you can only be punished for asking for money on the site if you're asking for the money in exchange for an illegal product.  That is a precise legal technicality you need to understand, the difference between selling something illegally and just asking for free money.  The act of asking for free money isn't criminal and the presence of fanfictions or mods on your site doesn't automatically make that act criminal either.

If they're going to punish you for a criminal then they'll punish you for the original act, the act of asking for free money doesn't automatically become criminal because of the other act since the money isn't being given in exchange for an illegal good or service.


Also, I already apologized for having insulted the creators earlier so stop holding that against me.

[Katie Skyye]

Learn how to read.  Also, learn how to spell, "idiocity" isn't even a real word. 

Right. Nice job with the quoting there. Great job...

That's a moot point- authors generally don't go after fanfictions at all.  Also, there's nothing legally stopping you from asking for donations regardless of what's on your site.

Yeah...this has already been covered, so I'll just let someone else remind you...

[Jutty]

[quote author=I_Gnoramus
"Quoted for idiocity. Yes, likely it's not as bad as it could be...based on what? Your hopes and dreams that the world is a nice, fluffy place where the rebels are always in the right and the man is keeping everyone down? I knew when you insulted the CE team by more or less calling them cowards that you were a mindless troll (meaning that I SHOULD ignore your ass), but damn, dude. YES, THIS IS MUTHA FUCKIN V TELLING SOMEONE ELSE TO GROW UP. Expect Hell to be a cold, cold place, bitches."


I already gave the Donkey Kong/Nintendo example and explained how lawyers lied.  Also, that's a nice little idiot scenario you offered, but, like I said....


"Likely, it's not as bad as what SE claims, but who knows?  We need some legal experts in gaming expertise to help us.  Everyone, stop assuming the worst case scenario or automatically trusting whatever the lawyers at SE tell us to believe.  It may not be the best-case scenario either, but it requires more investigation to offer up a final analysis."


Learn how to read.  Also, learn how to spell, "idiocity" isn't even a real word.  And stop referring to yourself as "mutha fuckin" whatever, all you're doing is self-perpetuating your own "mutha fuckin" ignorance by referring to yourself in such a manner.



"Yeah, that is bunk.

Rowling could sue the site either way for infringing on her copyright; heck, she could sue them even if they weren't taking any donations. The act of taking donations would mean that the limits on what she could sue for would increase, but that's neither here nor there if one would prefer to avoid court in the first place.

Also, an argument could still be made that any money raised for "legal actions" would be the result of the original copyright infringement and thus in turn be targeted."


That's a moot point- authors generally don't go after fanfictions at all.  Also, there's nothing legally stopping you from asking for donations regardless of what's on your site.

There is a significant legal difference between selling a fanfiction product and having a donation bar asking people to send you free stuff.  It doesn't matter if the fanfiction is there or not, legally, you can only be punished for asking for money on the site if you're asking for the money in exchange for an illegal product.  That is a precise legal technicality you need to understand, the difference between selling something illegally and just asking for free money.  The act of asking for free money isn't criminal and the presence of fanfictions or mods on your site doesn't automatically make that act criminal either.

If they're going to punish you for a criminal then they'll punish you for the original act, the act of asking for free money doesn't automatically become criminal because of the other act since the money isn't being given in exchange for an illegal good or service.


Also, I already apologized for having insulted the creators earlier so stop holding that against me.

I know that I said that I wasn't going to post anymore, and only use irc, but I just felt like saying. Take a fucking hint dude. CE is not getting released. The creators are not going to abandon their life just to get this game released and please you. If you can't understand this than you need to mature. Now before you make your next ridiculous post remember NOT GOING TO FUCKING HAPPEN. Plus you probably never even heard of this till it got C&D so stop acting like it's owed to you, because it's not.