Crimson Echoes plothole discussion

[Agent 12]

CMG(2) don't come back after X amount of time. They come back before the atash kedah.  

At that point is where the hole is. Under the rules of time/dimension travel we established that should have Time Bastard'd CMG(1).  But we clearly show both CMG(1) and CMG(2).  

It's a goof, a minor one though.  It could have been fixed by reordering the teleportation to ReptiteLand, or even by just now showing CMG(1) in the video and letting the user just assume that they got Time Bastard'd

It's about 7:06 in this video

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NcGKIH82Aag

--JP

[Agent 12]

Hm...I dont know how it compares to Time Egg... Someone who better understands the rules we have might be able to answer. It seems like the time egg sent them to a Frozen spot in time so maybe it doesn't apply?

--JP

[legaiaflame]

I was just theorizing but instead of the TB theory how about this:

Each time a timeline is changed by time travelers how about it just creates a parallel universe instead. So the events of Lavos eventually destroying the world still happened but just in a parallel world that the crono team created after defeating him instead of that erased timeline getting sent to TDBT?

[Chrono'99]

So obviously, another version of Crono, Glenn, and Magus are sent, thus creating two sets of them due to time travelers immunity. Can anyone say "Plot Hole"!

Not a plothole. The original Crono, Glenn and Magus stay X days in the Reptite 1005 AD before returning to Prehistory. When they change the timeline, versions of Crono, Glenn and Magus still emerge in 1005 AD due to TTI, but they fade from existence after X days. This is due to the concept of Time Bastard that the Compendium deduced from CT (Melchior and Janus) and CC (Ideal Timeline Serge):

http://www.chronocompendium.com/Term/Time_Bastard.html

Basically, the "duplicate" versions of Crono, Glenn and Magus aren't duplicates at all, they're just the past versions of Crono, Glenn and Magus ("past" in the sense that they are X days younger than the player's version of them).

You might think it's odd that some versions of them spent X days out there before disappearing, but it happens more often than you think in CT and CC. For instance the player's Crono grew up in a world in which there was no Fiona Forest, but there's also a "duplicate" version of Crono who grew up in a world in which there WAS a Fiona Forest. Crono's Mom lived with this "duplicate" version, but he disappears in 1000 AD and the one that returns is the player's version, not him. Kinda creepy, eh?

There was a lot of interesting discussions on alternative concepts in the recent months; I don't know if they're "better" than the current concepts (I haven't had the time to read them yet), but CE is based on these TTI and TB.


EDIT: lol Acacia Sgt and IAmSerge beat me to it pretty well.

[Acacia Sgt]

And, the reason why there were two versions of them is because the CMG who came from the reptite time line arrived before their past selves were sent through the portal by King Zeal, though now it's TB instead of time travel.

It's possible, you can time travel to the past and interact with your past self until TB claims him.

[legaiaflame]

Damn, that's messed up...

[legaiaflame]

But, I was just thinking of the new Star Trek  movie where Spock created a parallel universe, yet he coexists with his younger self  and does not disappear. But did he create a parallel universe or did his actions negate the original Star Trek timeline?

  Ahhhh, my head hurts!!

[Acacia Sgt]

I don't think the same rules apply there.

Ahhhh, my head hurts!!

I know, it may be complicated, but with enough time you will be able to understand nearly everything in here.

[Chrono'99]

I was just theorizing but instead of the TB theory how about this:

Each time a timeline is changed by time travelers how about it just creates a parallel universe instead. So the events of Lavos eventually destroying the world still happened but just in a parallel world that the crono team created after defeating him instead of that erased timeline getting sent to TDBT?

If this were true in the Chrono series, there would be a (real) duplicate version of Crono when your version of Crono comes back to 1000 AD. There would be duplicates everywhere due to all the time traveling actually.

It helps to think that under the TB concept the "duplicates" are past versions, not real doubles. It's exactly how the player's version of Robo can interact with another Robo in the Middle Ages. The one in the Middle Ages is not a duplicate but a version of him who's 400 years younger.

[Agent 12]

Wow I am enlightened Thanks 99!

As you guys can probably telll Z and C99 handled all that complicated stuff not me.  I never really delved out of the "rom hacking" part of the site and into the analysis.

--JP

EDIT: Serge and Acaia thanks for putting up with my total "newb" ness on TB. You guys were totally right haha.

[kid123]

Hey, V, A12 or Chrono '99. How about rename this topic '' CE Story Analysis''
or '' CE Plot Hole Discussion'' or whatever it is. This thread may be useful for future use.
At least it can prevent some spam thread.

EDIT
or even better create a new subforum about the analysis.

[Chrono'99]

Eh, why not? I renamed the thread Plothole discussion. The story analysis can probably just be discussed in the video/news threads, at least for now. A subforum is probably up to Zeality.

[FaustWolf]

Yeah, it's about time we started a thread specifically meant for CE story discussion and analysis. I'd back an entire subforum; I was going to say "maybe that's getting a little out of hand" at first, but if it occurred to '99 too...

[Mr Bekkler]

EDIT
or even better create a new subforum about the analysis.

I don't think that's necessary. Not yet. A thread is a good idea.

[mav]

I preferred discussing these things in the video topics themselves, since one topic may inevitably lead to a bunch of pages and eventually other topics.

Whatever though.