Author Topic: Wow (Dead Sea and other stuff)  (Read 5686 times)

Quinsisdos

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Wow (Dead Sea and other stuff)
« Reply #15 on: May 09, 2005, 08:19:58 am »
Yes, I wondered about that.

If Lavos' existance follows the pocket dimension theory, so he exists outside a normal time flow. Doesn't defeating him in any period between 12000BC and 1999AD destroy the pocket dimension he lives in, regardless of time period.

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-Crono lived.
-Crono changed time.
-The dimensions split.


If this is true, then Home and Another should be saved from Lavos. Is there a way that the Dimension Split overrides the changes already done to the Lavos Timeline that changes it to Keystone T-1?

Sentenal

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« Reply #16 on: May 09, 2005, 02:26:56 pm »
Lavos came out of his pocket dimension in 1999, as we see him bursting out of the ground.  And i'm pretty sure its canon that Lavos was defeated in 1999, which would be after the time split.

Daniel Krispin

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Wow (Dead Sea and other stuff)
« Reply #17 on: May 09, 2005, 03:43:46 pm »
But aren't they saved? It is without doubt that it resides on the new timeline. The researchers themselves in Chronopolis say it: 'this very facility resides on the new timeline' or something to that effect.

That you fight at the end of CC is not Lavos. That is the defeated Lavos. The old dimension, the evil future, was like a strand of time that was severed. If you imagine time as a thread of infinite coils, and that each change in time splits it into two (equally infinite strands), this makes it somewhat easier to visualize. By whatever sorcery it contained, the time travel not only split time, it cut it off so that nothing of the old future remained within the temporal plane; this lost time was therefore condemned to the Tesseract - this lost time which contained the arisen and powerful Lavos. Now, if he is defeated in another dimension (his pocket dimension), effectively erasing him from existance (though, come to think of it, it cannot destroy him through all times; in that case he would never live to destroy the Reptites, and humanity would have fallen ere it began) for the important times, at least. This seems to contradict, I suppose, with the computers in Chronopolis that seem to show, in the future, the discovery of Lavos under the surface. It may be that this was old data from before the Seven defeated the Demon, but I cannot think how else to rationalize that away at the moment (help, here?) The Time Devourer itself, however, is easier to explain: that is the very Lavos that resided atop Death Peak in the ruined future, merged with Schala (as I think we all know.) When his time was erased, he was sent into the Tesseract, the shadow of the evil that was to be. But he was so mighty that he was able to interact with things, and with the world, even from there. A pesky critter to get rid of, indeed - even erasing him from time isn't enough!

Sentenal

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« Reply #18 on: May 09, 2005, 04:35:13 pm »
What you said about changes in time spliting it into two, and the Terrseract...  From what we heard from Miguel in CC, under normal circumstances, time is not split two separant strands...  Under normal cirumstances, the futures who have changed pasts are completly severed from time, and thus make up the Terrseract.  Now, dimensional splits are different.  I have no idea what causes them.  But dimensional splits do cause the timeline spliting into 2 strands.

And with the spliting dimensions, you can also use this to visualize why Home cannot be saved.  Crono time traveled from a time where there is only the original, unsplit strand of your proverbial coil.  He would be jumping from one point on the coil to a later point on it.  Now, if he was jumping to a point of the coil that had been split, how can he possibly arrive at both new strands?

Quinsisdos

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« Reply #19 on: May 09, 2005, 04:40:50 pm »
We know that the Time Crash caused a massive destabilisation in space-time, across dimensions. We know from the ghosts and the research computers that Chronopolis interacts with more than Home and Another.

The Time Crash effected "Home" by creating the Dead Sea, as we know. But rather than pulling this area from the "ruined timeline" that Home could become (Because Serge has undone Chrono's actions), its pulled from the DBT as a discarded future. This could partially explain its "compressed" and frozen nature. Although this little thought fails to answer some of the other questions, particually why the Home version of the Frozen Flame resides there.

I've just finished the Chronopolis section in CC, and its making my head hurt thinking about it sometimes ^^b

Sentenal

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« Reply #20 on: May 09, 2005, 04:51:28 pm »
The time crash did not cause the dead sea, the time split did.  The time crash was the event that connected 7,600bc with 2,400ad.  The time split was Serge's survival that created Home World.  Chronopolis theorizes that there are countless other dimensions out there, but it was just speculation.

Quinsisdos

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« Reply #21 on: May 09, 2005, 07:36:20 pm »
Quote from: Sentenal
The time crash did not cause the dead sea, the time split did.  The time crash was the event that connected 7,600bc with 2,400ad.  The time split was Serge's survival that created Home World.  Chronopolis theorizes that there are countless other dimensions out there, but it was just speculation.


Why does Miguel refer to the Dead Sea as "Time Crash Ground Zero" then?

Shadow_Dragon

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« Reply #22 on: May 09, 2005, 07:40:34 pm »
The splitting of the dimensions didn't happen in any of CT, since it was the result of the prosperous future

Every normal person's actions were split into both worlds (Radius kills Garai in both worlds), so why wouldn't a Crono exist in Home World that time traveled and eventually destroyed Lavos? Maybe I'm not understanding since I don't know anything about Time Erorr...

Sentenal

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« Reply #23 on: May 09, 2005, 08:29:48 pm »
Okay, here is the exact text of what I was refering to...

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Miguel: ...An incident that occurred 10 years ago, transformed it into the Dead Sea.


10 years ago was the Time Split, not the Time Crash.

Quinsisdos

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« Reply #24 on: May 09, 2005, 09:07:17 pm »
Hmmm, Miguel referres to both in the same sequence.

Could that mean that the Time Crash and the Dimensional Split have both attributed to the eventual existance of the Dead Sea? The fact that Chronopolis resides in the same area in other dimensions/times can't be a coincidence.

Sentenal

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« Reply #25 on: May 09, 2005, 11:06:02 pm »
Dont get me wrong, the Dead Sea is there because of the time crash (as is the sea of eden), but the dead sea was turned into the dead sea from the sea of eden due to the split.

DarkGizmo

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« Reply #26 on: June 15, 2005, 06:33:52 pm »
For the "Serge undone Crono's actions" thing, can't it just be that since he lives now and didn't in the Another, maybe he just did some action that in the future cause Crono to fail in his mission.

example:

Serge goes somewhere and make a pile of rock

---- years later lavos erupted and send those rock right to "Arris dome"( ? ) (the dome where you see the Day of Lavos record), thus destroying a wall and destroying all the data from the computer.

thus Crono doesn't learn about Lavos, they get Robo, go back to 1000 AD and THE END.


Now since Serge wouldn't have made a pile of rock (since he was dead) nothing of this happens and Crono learn about Lavos.

Sentenal

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« Reply #27 on: June 15, 2005, 07:17:57 pm »
No, because things in time don't happen until they are actually done.

Zatopek

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« Reply #28 on: June 15, 2005, 08:58:40 pm »
Quote from: Shadow_Dragon
so why wouldn't a Crono exist in Home World that time traveled and eventually destroyed Lavos? Maybe I'm not understanding since I don't know anything about Time Erorr...


It's important to note the split occured in 1010AD, not 1000 when Crono's journey's began.  I'll try and explain this as best I can.

Before the split, there's one timeline.  Crono hops from 1000 to 2300 and back as much as he likes.  Then, in 1010, the timeline is split in two STARTING FROM THAT POINT.  Thus, there's ONE Crono in 1000, but TWO apocalyptic futures because the dimensions split.  When Crono goes forward and fixes things, it's only in Another World, poor Home (the aberration), is left out.

Here's a link to a diagram of the timeline changes and the Home/Another Split:
http://www.chronocompendium.com/images/wiki/b/b1/Timelines.png

Crono time travels just as before, along his timeline.  He can only time travel within his timeline, since an extra Crono isn't created when he goes into the future to cover both dimensions.  Does this kinda make sense?  I'm not good at explaining it.  There are others here who can better illustrate and draw prettier diagrams.

Eggith Cyrene

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Wow (Dead Sea and other stuff)
« Reply #29 on: June 16, 2005, 02:28:19 am »
wow i never notcied that. Thats like one of the few links to ct CC had. (the majority of which takes place in the dead sea the tower of geddon particulary.