I've only just checked the Compendium yesterday for the first time since about the week of the C&D. I've spent then and today watching all 90 youtube videos of it and I've come here to have my say on it. Addressed to those that made it.
Couldn't see any kind of general CE topic anywhere, tried searching. So I guessed I'd use the most recent newspost on it. Don’t know if this should be moved anywhere or have its own topic.
Word of warning; this is going to be harshly phrased. No sugar-coating. (and I'm sure people aren't going to like me for this) I’m treating this as I’d treat an actual game upon review. This, if anything is a testament to the dedication that went into making this behemoth.
Okay, the gameplay design is bad. It kind manages to ruin Chrono Trigger’s great systems.
Ridiculous amounts of dungeon crawling in dungeons that don’t matter. Oh great, more monsters in another canyon or something. It was almost all just filler and had no point to the plot. I mean, the fact that Lucca and Robo’s reptite future time had ANY dungeons is just stupid. End to end dungeons as well!
CT had a good balance, this was just ridiculous. It was a chore to watch and skip through on YouTube, never mind actually play.
Dungeons should only really exist when they have a reason to be there in the plot, or because you need a quick one to break up a gameplay segment or build up to something. They shouldn’t just be there for the sake of length.
The DBT also really didn’t need a dungeon. It’s un-Chrono, it’s a pain and it’s a chore. (though it did look damn good)
And this ties in with all the boring gauntlets of fighting. You just kept throwing random monsters at the players.
The difficulty is also ridiculous. It shouldn’t be any harder than Chrono Trigger was if it’s meant to appeal to the fans. I mean, hell, I was watching a new game+ that tried to avoid battles and it not only seemed difficult, but now I'm entirely sick of the CT battle screen.
The puzzles were often badly designed too. In fact, the game design overall is kind of awful. Aside from all of the above; there was a lot of moments where they player could get lost. And things like that maze of random battles, or the frog catching minigame being higher pressure than all the fighting due to the timer and competitive nature of the sequence.
And the fights you can’t win till NG+ being replay value? It’s not. It’s just bad design.
Had Crimson Echoes been released, I honestly wouldn’t have finished it. I can tell. Providing I didn’t get stuck, I’d have gotten bored and ended up watching the cutscenes on YouTube anyway.
Though the fact you had to rely on Chrono Trigger itself for design doesn’t help. Repetition and an inability to create detailed new time periods and such. Limits the scope and meant that it maybe shouldn’t have been so long.
Now the story and some general thoughts from while I was watching.
Good writing was very occasional. I did think you got the weird tame Woolsley CT humour down pat. But it loses it the further you get in the main story, and NPC dialogue just eventually becomes meaningless references to stuff one of you likes. However, I did like a lot of the cool references and nods to CT and CC though. Particularly at the beginning.
I like the portraits. They’re a different style but they work.
Magus is a completely different character. I'm no fanboy and don't need him to be a badass. I’m okay with him losing a fight to Dalton or being all “the reaper fears nothing” before comically passing out.
But he was fairly quiet originally. And aside from one very Magus-y line in the Frozen Flame trial; you had him coming out with some ridiculously ridiculous crap in this game. I remember cringing particularly at the “we’re space aliens” part and the “hello! Dark innate, here”
I also think Schala and Magus reuniting kind of spoils the purity of his mission and drive to find her overall. But it’s not too big a deal, I suppose.
Would’ve been nice if Schala had a personality though.
I understand the reasoning for Crono not being mute, but I never saw him say one line that either mattered or couldn’t have been said by someone else. He even seemed to have lines that just seemed out of character. And by mute standards!
Thought the early violence/death changes were handled well. Death is still Chrono-style, but to have Crono cut down that Porre guy at the beginning like that would've been way too harsh for the hero. And the villain faking death seemed like classic CT humour.
There were lots of boring bits. Magus’ (after being captured by Dalton) and Marle’s (when thinking about Ann Guardia) life flashbacks were missable, for example.
But a lot of the original stuff involving meaningless conflicts and groups like the Vanguard and the like was just yawnworthy. I’m not sure Kasmir ever needed to exist. Just all seemed like more excuses for pointless dungeon crawling. The bizarre and/or forgettable names didn’t help. I just kept wanting the main story to go ahead.
Maybe if they were just sidequests I would've been okay with it.
King Zeal was a fantastic idea for a villain.
But first of all, it was way too obvious it was him as soon as you saw the name in the battle with Magus. You should've gone straight for the reveal when he appeared.
However, the big problem is that the writing for him is really crappy. I’d like to be more polite than that, but his lines are corny and he never makes much sense. His motivations and goals throughout are weak and even at the end he just seemed to be a dick.
And I can't take "the aresh kaddah" and the burning of Lavos seriously at all. That all just came off really stupid.
As did his ridiculous MY SUPER POWERS CONSISTENTLY SOMEHOW INCAPICITATE FOUR OR SIX PEOPLE THAT CAN ALL BEAT LAVOS.
Frog's speech change I didn't really have a problem with, except that there seems to have been no point to doing so. He never says or does anything particularly "kickass" or anything that he couldn't have said with the polite medieval speech. It's barely worth mentionting but it just seemed an odd choice.
The scene with Crono killing those two reptites on discovering Marle's deaths was just badly handled.
An interesting idea though. Maybe if a mute Crono had reacted and killed them all with the same animation. Cut the awful "I have a family" line and have Magus say the good line about how it won't matter once they change the timeline anyway.
Although it made me uncomfortable (in a well done kind of way), I liked the idea of the reptite world timeline and it’s end. Marle’s death and Lucca and Robo’s future. And it all being swept away by Crono’s overriding the timeline.
I thought that was a pretty good storyline, but thought that, for example, Marle and Lucca’s segments should’ve had zero dungeons and only one boss fight. (because the Dragon God computer thing was pretty cool)
The Neo-Epoch looks great. Totally matches CC. I was very impressed.
Ayla was harshly neglected in this.
And killing Kino is very questionable, especially doing it in that manner. Though Frog's affection toward her is an even worse decision. By the ending it was just...What were you thinking?!
Constant Deus Ex Machina with the Frozen Flame is annoying, but that is true to Chrono Cross, I suppose.
I concur with the video notations that the touch with the lights and the use of the Undersea Palace tune was working to great effect with King Zeal. But his awful lines and in that sequence his making that horribly long dungeon rather pointless...Not so much. Simply finding the old Masamune isn't really much of a reward for the dungeon crawling and the puzzling.
By this point I’d noticed how the plot had slowly been getting worse and was devolving into a bad fanfic. Especially around that awful rise of Zeal sequence. Crono’s return and the conversation with Zeal and just...Ugh.
Also, have I missed or forgotten something? What's with all this "planet's dream" stuff?
Ayla had some nice lines in her Frozen Flame 'trial' thing. But I did find the entire trial sequences boring and pointless.
Massive changes you made in time in the original game didn’t have consequences like in this. The whole having to have that Choras guy die just seemed really untrue to Chrono Trigger.
(also some of the hazy memories I have on Chrono Cross' split realities and the Darkness Beyond Time have me questioning some of the time travel logic, but I'll trust you guys know better than me on that one)
I'd expect it from Belthasar, but I also find it very questionable how a lot of the heroes talk like they've been reading Chrono Compendium articles for the last five years.
The pre-final battle conversation was nonsensical, inane, and pointless. The writing for King Zeal never fails to be terrible. And it becomes clearer that; he's just a dick. (I mean "Porridge of emnity" come on!)
A lot of the writing had this, even one person's notations at the end contained the same vague attempts at being deep, in the most shallow way possible.
The final boss looked great. As did the unused sprite of it. How come the stomach thing didn't get put on?
Exploring characters return to their times is completely pointless. The original game only showed you how the future changed because it's the only thing that would actually change after the last boss. They didn't need to piss about having you exploring all the places you’ve already seen, talking to people whose new dialogue consists entirely of "Hi, welcome back."
King Zeal's return at the ending was stupid. It undermines the player’s actions. And it’s pure Marty Sue writing.
Balthasar was CHALLENGED by the Frozen Flame to do his ridiculous Chrono Cross plan? Unless I’m forgetting something from CC that seems to make no sense.
Do we never see the Masamune after Dalton takes it? This seems weird. I expected a setup for Chrono Cross in there.
I actually really liked the "Chrono Break" lines. Clever and a nice way to end. (though Gaspar’s cheesy fade killed the moment for me)
For a labour of love by such dedicated fans of the Chrono series, especially those that understand the story in such detail, I don’t get how a lot of these decisions could have possibly been made. I mean the best example is that for all the attention to detail, Magus’ personality is practically not in the game. Not to mention the many easily fixed plotholes.
At the end of the day, I’d loathe to accept any of it as canon.
Either way, I do have to say that overall the scope, size, detail and just the entire technical side of all this is incredible. I mean, the game is huge. And despite technical limitations you managed to come up with some great new areas and sprites and the like. The polish was also remarkable. The ambitions at work were massive and in this sense, I think you reached them. I have to congratulate you on that. I've never seen a fan project like this. Considering the effort and work put in, and the fact that it obviously would’ve satisfied some people, I do think it is a shame it could never have been released.
If you ever worked on another rom hack again, it’s something I’d look forward to seeing.
