Fuck Sexism

[Lord J Esq]

Well, I'm not female, but I've had the same thought myself. It's good to point out. This is just one more part of that endless dimension of "by and for males" which dominates all of our popular media. I've been sour for years that Magus and Crono are both vastly more muscular than Ayla, who is the strongest physical character in the game by stats. This sort of omission undercuts the credibility of strong female characters.

There's so much more to talk about here: The very fact of emphasizing physical strength, for instance, is clearly a male prerogative, since in the real world males vastly dominate females in that department. (Not only are they naturally predisposed to being stronger, but society relentlessly discourages females from realizing what strength potential they have. I've seen males accuse other males of being gay after stating a preference for muscular females.) Then there's the fact that female characters are usually cast with even greater stereotypes than male ones. Again this gets traces back to the fact that female characters in games are designed by and for males. Female characters who are not overtly evil are overwhelmingly afflicted with profound troubles or profound innocence, either of which is addressed in the course of the plot with a love story, inevitably involving one of the male characters. I shouldn't need to point out where that comes from.

And on, and on...

[FaustWolf]

An additional matter I've become curious about of late is the ratio of male to female characters in the typical RPG party roster. I've recently come across an incredibly obscure (but insanely good, so far) Taiwanese RPG which has the following interesting characteristics:

*The player's party is composed of a female majority, and I think this trend extends through the whole game judging from other videos I've seen: two permanent male characters and one male temp, whereas there appear to be three to four permanent female party members.

*The main character, while male, is physically average in appearance (this is emphasized by the huge, meaty grunt-iness of the male antagonists he has to face in battle). Moreover, his stat progression and available equipment as I've observed them so far leave him physically inferior to some of his female cohorts. He seems more suitable as a back-row mage than as a frontline attacker.

While I'm sure the gender ratio, combined with various choices the player has, is going to lead to the same "harem syndrome" Final Fantasy VII could be accused of, I still found these aspects of the game refreshing. I can't exactly read the characters are saying, but this was the first time in a while I've seen an RPG conversation in which 75% of the partipants were female, and all participants were wearing earrings.

[alfadorredux]

Japan, at least, does produce some video games (mostly RPGs and visual novels) aimed at a female audience, but they're almost never translated into English. They usually contain a different set of stereotypes, mostly derived from shoujo manga--in particular, the males tend to be eye-candy bishounen.

I wish I thought this was any more positive than the stereotypes appearing in the games aimed at male audiences.

[FaustWolf]

I wish I thought this was any more positive than the stereotypes appearing in the games aimed at male audiences.

And this is where I worry about sitting back and letting the market solve imbalances in stereotypical media portrayals. My prediction is, that as women account for a growing percentage of total income, masculinity will be increasingly sexualized and commodified just as femininity has been. Maybe we'll have a version of Dead or Alive: XTreme Beach Volleyball where all the characters are men tailor-designed to appeal to whatever the programmers guess women's sexual appetites are.

That would, on its face, solve an imbalance. But I'm not sure it solves it in a way I find agreeable; I suspect that is the Second Waver in me speaking.



Getting back to something J mentioned for a second:

The very fact of emphasizing physical strength, for instance, is clearly a male prerogative, since in the real world males vastly dominate females in that department.

I realize I'm going out on a huuuuge cultural limb here, and I honestly feel rather embarrassed about asking this because it could be in scientific literature of which I am unaware, but has the statement in the real world males vastly dominate females in the (physical) department ever been statistically proven? Like, in a randomized sample, focusing on a specific competitive activity? Say, arm wrestling?

My (completely untested) hypothesis is, most human bodies fall into some middling range where men and women overlap considerably in terms of physical strength. True, I've never seen a woman look like Arnold Schwarzenegger or Jesse Ventura, but Arnold Schwarzenegger and Jesse Ventura are popular because they are rare dudes, and have gone through intensive physical training to get where they are at. I consider myself about average in physical terms, and I've done the following things during adolescence:

1. Defeated an average male in arm wrestling
2. Been defeated by an average female in arm wrestling

All participants mentioned were of comparable height and age. Just thought I'd throw it out there and see what everyone's reaction is.

[Lord J Esq]

I spent an afternoon at the library a number of years ago asking that very question. What I found is that female and male muscle are functionally identical, but that males have more of it--considerably more, in fact--making them significantly stronger. This comes at least partially and probably mostly (my guess) from from sex-specific differences at the genetic level (as opposed to the environmental level). I don't like it, but that's the way it is.

I'm sure you can find study abstracts online that convey the same bottom line.

You're right that there's a lot of overlap, but "a lot" hardly constitutes a majority. I haven't seen any statistics establishing "90 percent of males are stronger than 75 percent of females" (fictitious figures provided as an example), but I'm sure such statistics are out there, and that they would reflect that, overlapping aside, most males are going to be physically stronger than most females. If you find those numbers, let me see 'em.

[Uboa]

I'm also curious for an opinion from any female members who'd care to comment; can you think of any female game characters who are an idealized form based on what you would consider an idealized female form?

I can say without a doubt, no.  The one who comes closest is Samus, but only because one can assume certain admirable character traits from the way she operates in the games, particularly in the Prime series.  If her story was more fleshed out I'd probably consider her an ideal female.  I think there is whole lot of potential for her actualization in her story, since she was fostered by a race and a culture which, compared to our own, seems almost utopian, and then would have had to deal with "becoming human" amidst her own kind.  This is why the untold story behind the Metroid series always intrigued me, and lured me into several fanfiction projects which never amounted to anything in the end, unfortunately.

I do harbor a lot of bitterness at the fact that practically all "powerful" female video game characters are reflective of male ideals of how powerful women should look and act.  J, you mention your sourness with the depiction of Magus and Crono as stronger than the depiction of Ayla.  I'm definitely with you there, but perhaps for slightly different reasons.  I think that Ayla's depiction not only undermines the credibility of strong female characters, but actually undermines the idea of female strength itself.  First, her depiction is obviously geared toward reflecting the predominate male ideals of female video game characters, and that in itself makes her strength seem more like fanciful male thinking than anything substantial.  Second, her depiction is reflective of the kind of female "strength" typified in supplement-driven female body-building, which is in itself just another image of supposed strength.  Most women cannot realistically be that "cut".  It's just not how our physiology works.  For example, think of the female swimmers in the Olympic games.  Their figures are huge but their muscle definition is almost nonexistent compared with that of their male counterparts.  

Edit:  Then there's Dara Torres...


If there was a female video game character who had Ayla's strength and was depicted realistically, she'd (probably, edit in light of DT, hah) look completely different from any depiction of a female fighter to date.  I guess I'd characterize my "ideal female form", at least for a fighter, as how I'd imagine such a character to look and act.

(Samus gets a pass on some of this because she has the coolest biomechanical suit of armor.  Ever. </geekout moment>)

[Uboa]

Necessary double post.

I've learned the potential power of self posts on reddit.  This shocked me, and made me realize that even though things may not be as bad today as they were in the 50's (I'm guessing the decade given her statement about her mother's age at one point), the lingering anxieties of that oppressive "feminine" culture still affect young women today!  Sometimes terribly. 

http://www.reddit.com/r/feminisms/comments/aoi0d/i_just_finished_reading_the_feminine_mystique_i/

[KebreI]

http://www.gamepro.com/article/features/213466/bayonetta-empowering-or-exploitative/

[Radical_Dreamer]

http://www.gamepro.com/article/features/213466/bayonetta-empowering-or-exploitative/

I will reply to this link as I have elsewhere:
http://scienceblogs.com/notrocketscience/2010/01/how_sexual_objectification_silences_women_-_the_male_glance.php?utm_source=editorspicks

FaustWolf, you might be particularly interested in this link.

[ZeaLitY]

That link hadn't been submitted to feminisms yet in its one-year history. Let's vote this to the top: http://www.reddit.com/r/feminisms/comments/aov8g/how_objectification_silences_women_the_male/

Edit: http://www.reddit.com/r/science/comments/aoumb/women_talking_too_much_stare_at_her_body_shell/ How cute; a token sexist on the science reddit submitted it there with a sexist title. Someone deserves to lose a few teeth.

[Uboa]

http://www.gamepro.com/article/features/213466/bayonetta-empowering-or-exploitative/

How is this not Feminine Mystique 2.0?  The female lead's power and her capacity to "empower" stem from her "brand" of sexuality.  And that is all it is.  A brand.  A caricature of enticement which is thought best portrayed through a female.  "Feminine sexuality = power".  This message gets replayed and rehashed through every conceivable media outlet with such frequency that it makes my head spin.

If people find the game empowering, then I don't want to stop them from playing or feeling empowered.  But, I feel like the message in this article is somewhat if not mostly apologetic, and apologists often try to assign virtue where it is not due.  A rehashing of the same old same old, with regard to the feminine mystique message, misses the mark where female empowerment is concerned.

[Lord J Esq]

Yeah. Female empowerment (and sexual equality more broadly) will always get caught up in gender-based thinking so long as people aren't willing to discard gendered thinking entirely. Trying to make female empowerment work within the context of gender necessarily sends out a strong signal of segregation-in-principle, which, given the existing imbalances, manifests as this confusing dilemma of "Is it empowering or not to put females into the spotlight on account of being women?" It's a tangle, a big bramble patch. The clear way ahead is for people to practice ungendered thinking and ungendered behavior.

[ZeaLitY]

Most people who use MSN have probably seen their dating advice pages pop up in the log-on screen. Bother to read them, and you'll find that they've been consistently really, really bad. The latest one is just ridiculous: 10 Things Every Single Girl Must Own - http://dating.uk.msn.com/matchscene/article.aspx?articleid=3996&lid=0

The sexism goes both ways in this. Some people do behave like this, so some of the tips do barely have (extremely) tenuous merit. Overall, though, they're vapid and gendered. I'm assuming this is written for the absolute lowest-common denominator. Here's a quick run-through:

1. A fabulous photo of yourself - "Daa-aamn, girl, you're hotter than I realised!"

MALE: Shit, now I really want to fuck this bitch! I was like "yeah I'd hit it" before but damn!

FEMALE: I am fundamentally UGLY. I must go to great lengths to look beautiful and manufacture illusion to ensnare a lay.

3. An Eminem CD

MALE: Haha, did she think I was going to actually like her for who she is? Hot fuck, this CD means she's just like one of the guys! I admire taste in music, and Eminem is an epicurean delight!

FEMALE: I cannot hope to have a relationship based on my true identity and tastes. I should get used to creating a home full of artifice and pretend to like things I don't.

4. A great pickup line…and a way to blow 'em off - "In this post-chivalrous period, we can't always depend on guys to initiate contact"

MALE: Men should be chivalrous, even if it's severely patronizing and reinforces gender roles. After all, she's totally a bitch if you hold the door open for her, but she doesn't put out later in thanks.

FEMALE: LIE! For god's sake, lie, lest you seem like a BITCH for *gasp* rejecting someone you don't want!

(Admittedly, lying is more than justified in getting rid of overbearing jerks or creeps.)

5. A six-pack of good bottled beer

MALE: BEEEEEEEEEER, UGG WANT BEER, GIVE BEEEEEEEEER

FEMALE: Buy and drink shit you don't like, or be involuntarily celibate.

6. Bathroom reading - "Or, just buy a book that's made for the bathroom, like Schott's Original Miscellany by Ben Schott so he can learn a few things about shoelace lengths and sign language while he passes the, uh, time."

MALE: Nevermind that I'm already up to shitting in her bathroom despite the fact that we just started seeing each other. I want entertainment, goddamnit, and I'm incapable of appreciating any female-marketed literature.

FEMALE: I am so willing to please and desperate to serve my man to keep him that I must find ways to impress him, even when he's relieving himself.

8. Earplugs

MALE: I'm a stupid fuck who doesn't realize that snoring can be indicative of a serious medical problem, and I'm an inconsiderate asshole for not acknowledging its disrupting effect on those I sleep with.

FEMALE: God forbid I actually tell someone I'm seeing to go to the doctor for something or, you know, seek help for a condition that could totally blow my sleep for the entire duration of our relationship, or the rest of my life. No, that'd offend him, and he'd leave me. I must tolerate his insensitivity and ignorance or be lonely.

9. A straight male friend on your speed-dial

MALE: LOL @ empathy.

FEMALE: Despite being human, having a brain, and sharing the same earth and experiences with them, I am helpless to understand or comprehend men.

10. A condom

MALE: I LUV BANGIN' WITHOUT RUBBERS

FEMALE: I have so little dignity that I am willing to date men who are completely irresponsible about their personal health, *my* personal health, and family planning/contraception. Oh yeah, this one's a keeper.

[FaustWolf]

Ha ha ha, I had to laugh at the beer advice. I tend to think dating (is one of the few activities that) should be done sober.

About the condoms: I personally feel it's a little sad on some level given ZeaLitY's observation about the deeper meaning behind this little piece of latex, but if I had a daughter I guess I'd rather have her carry a condom with her than not if she insists on going through with such a deed. Say, doesn't carrying condoms in DC get you arrested for prostitution nowadays? Way to discourage safety!

[GenesisOne]

Is it just me, or has rom-com movies of the past decade (or even past two decades) have depicted women (especially those in high school) as being:

High School (think 17 Again)
- a brat
- an idiot
- a slut

Beyond High School (think All About Steve and The Proposal)
- a doormat
- still an idiot
- a hopeless freak

It would seem that as far as cinema is concerned for the past decade, rom-coms are officially on life support, and not just for the reasons that I listed above.  If there is a way to improve them for the future, please share them, as I too would like to inject some ideas of my own.

P.S. Is it not a coincidence that Sandra Bullock starred in those two films?  She either needs to fire her agent or find a new line of work.