Fuck Sexism

[Truthordeal]

Remember Betty Friedan and the Feminine Mystique who argued that women that stayed at home were crushing their souls and feminism. There is some truth to that, and I can see how a stay at home mom can feel that way.

But, then again, Friedan was what you would refer to as a Feminazi, and very against women choosing their roles in society inasmuch as every woman dedicating themselves to feminism and supporting an absolutely equal society between men and women, even though her vision implied oppressing men.

So, yeah...I don't know what I was trying to prove there...

Oh yeah, housekeeping is not necessarily a beloved career choice among some of the more diehard feminists.

[Zephira]

To be honest, housekeeping and cleaning is not that fun at all. Being a stay at home mom sounds glamorous, but if it involves long hours of cleaning, dirty diapers, the smell of detergent and pine sol, I'd rather go out and get a real job.
Not saying I won't clean my own home, but it's not something I'd dedicate my life to.

[Truthordeal]

That's the point, Zephira. But that appeals to some women, and if they're doing something that makes them happy and feel fulfilled, then God speed to them. Feminism be damned if it gets in the way of their individual happiness.

[ZeaLitY]

That's the point, Zephira. But that appeals to some women, and if they're doing something that makes them happy and feel fulfilled, then God speed to them. Feminism be damned if it gets in the way of their individual happiness.

You have a skewed idea of feminists if you think they're out to force women to do what they feel is right. As a woman growing in America today, it's a social risk to declare to yourself that you're not going to ever do housekeeping or things like that. Many men expect you to (and expect themselves to the breadwinners while also having pressure to be achievers and not be seen as "whipped" or soft as a stay-at-home parent), which limits your dating pool, and even many women who accepted sexist convention in their lives will frown upon your career-woman path. There are social and cultural attitudes that make it more difficult for women to take a career path outside of the home, and those are what feminists are fighting. We have not yet reached equality. The point you're trying to make comes right out of Rush Limbaugh's playbook for "feminazis".

[Truthordeal]

If having a career is so detrimental to the dating pool, then why do most families have two incomes nowadays?

And if you don't believe that feminazis, not to be mistaken for feminists, don't try to capitalize on feminism over free choice, then you're equally as ignorant as what you painted me out to be.

Consider Linda Hirshman, a gal who got on 60 Minutes on a special about well educated women deciding to be housewives rather than corporate powerhouses. More or less, she decided that since she was a philosophy professor, as well as a card carrying member of the feminist movement, she should criticize these women for choosing for themselves rather than following in some extremist feminine dogma.

That's what I meant by feminazis, and there are plenty of them out there. Just as you use the Pope to ridicule religion, I use the heads of these organizations to ridicule that form of extreme feminism.

[Mr Bekkler]

Yeah, but you did say Feminism be damned if it gets in the way of their individual happiness.

The whole point of feminism is to achieve individual happiness.

If it gets in the way, it's not feminism. It's just somebody being a bitch. And that goes for both genders.

[ZeaLitY]

If having a career is so detrimental to the dating pool, then why do most families have two incomes nowadays?

Come on now, give the mental effort necessary to differentiate the jobs. Women traditionally held secretarial or minor labor work, while men became businessmen, bankers, engineers, etc. on actual high-paying career paths.

And if you don't believe that feminazis, not to be mistaken for feminists, don't try to capitalize on feminism over free choice, then you're equally as ignorant as what you painted me out to be.

I believe you don't know the difference between feminists and feminazis, and I'm not surprised, given that a few days ago you still believed that there is no oppression of women in America.

That's what I meant by feminazis, and there are plenty of them out there. Just as you use the Pope to ridicule religion, I use the heads of these organizations to ridicule that form of extreme feminism.

Except religion is a) founded upon an irrational premise and b) a case of actual support from congregation right up to leadership. Mormons pay tithing to the church and First Presidency. Catholics give collections to the church and Pope. Same with Anglicans. Evangelicals make donations and their own fundraising. And religious people in general defend the actions and views of their leaders. These are all connected, versus individual idealists with a couple crazies in the mix.

[Truthordeal]

There is no oppression of women in America. That word is overused as it is. The only people you can make a case for as being oppressed are the consumers, against the government and corporations that don't have their interests at heart. Even then I don't believe the word "oppressed" is justified.

I'm not stupid here, there is discrimination. There's discrimination of everyone though, so either we're all oppressed or none of us are. Women can become CEO's, bankers, etc. Hell, one almost became President, and vice president in that order. There's nothing stopping them besides their own attitudes and ambitions or lackthereof.

If you want to talk about society, well, there's nothing you or I can do about that without reducing America to some morbid Orwellian state, which is far worse than what we have now, because then no one's ambitions are worth it.

And its surprising that you're able to pick out the "individuals and crazies" in feminism but not in religion. In the same way that you relate Christians with their church, I might relate feminists to NOW and other organizations, which are headed by people far more ideological than the Pope is.

Maybe social equality doesn't exist yet. But women are not being oppressed by anyone except themselves.

[Mr Bekkler]

Wow. Just wow. You are wrong. You're very wrong. It would take hours to get you to understand all the reasons, and I'm too busy at the moment to detail them. But wow. I disagree with you, Tordeal.

[Truthordeal]

Nope, you're wrong Mr. Bekkler. I don't know how, since you won't tell me how I'm wrong, but you're wrong.

[ZaichikArky]

Alright guys, let's just take into account what "oppression" actually means.

Dictionary Definition..

op⋅pres⋅sion
  /əˈprɛʃən/ Show Spelled Pronunciation [uh-presh-uhn] Show IPA
Use oppression in a Sentence
–noun
1.    the exercise of authority or power in a burdensome, cruel, or unjust manner.
2.    an act or instance of oppressing.
3.    the state of being oppressed.
4.    the feeling of being heavily burdened, mentally or physically, by troubles, adverse conditions, anxiety, etc.

Synonyms:
1. tyranny, despotism, persecution. 3, 4. hardship, suffering.

Does that describe the position of women in America? As a woman, I don't feel oppressed in this country. I don't even really feel discriminated against. I do know of facts and statures and all the talk about the glass ceiling to understand that some women do feel discriminated against. However, taking into account the etymology of the word "oppression", I would not argue that women are oppressed in this country.

[Lord J Esq]

There is no oppression of women in America.

[Samopoznanie]

Alright guys, let's just take into account what "oppression" actually means.

The verb escapes me at the moment, but in my second-year Russian class. we learned an older, lesser used term for "To Oppress". It's conjugation was unique, as it had no past tense -- because as my teacher put it, "In Russia, oppression never ends!" 

[Uboa]

There is no oppression of women in America.

I wish I could believe that, and I also wish I could believe there is no more racial oppression in America.  Ideally, both should not exist anymore.  But, that just isn't the case. 

I'm thankful that I've never been overtly discriminated against because of my race or gender, but I know that there are many, many others who have not been so lucky in this country.

[skylark]

There is no oppression of women in America.

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No. Just... no.