Fuck Sexism

[ZeaLitY]

http://www.eurotopics.net/en/home/presseschau/archiv/aehnliche/archiv_article/ARTICLE98503-Spanish-bishop-legitimates-rape

"Archbishop". That title won't mean a thing in my labor camps.

[Master Garland]

Indeed sexism is a social condition that should be done away with I agree. I know and am full aware that women and men are equal though different, and that they should have equal rights in all matters from personal, social, to professional and such. I am in no way sexist to the slightest minuet degree. These facts of me in mind it is now time for me to now say that I am against abortion in most cases there are stipulations depending on the case however. The aforementioned stipulations being that if the woman would be bringing a deformed child into the world or if she was raped especially if it was by a family member. By the way Lord J Esq you do realize that when a woman kills her baby it is not "her body" right. Yes they are connected by a cord but they are separate entities overall. I also find it to be on the rather inane side of thought processes that you so easily call others bigots and such. From what I have seen of your posts here you are number one arrogant, number two cold-hearted, and number three well-read and educated but ignorant all in one tight little package.

I will now start to get back on to the subject at hand now. I will start by debunking some of the pro abortion misconceptions.

Economic status: Here we go 'aborting not a bad choice the world is overpopulated enough as it is it will only further strain our economic resources' this old chestnut claim. I'll just admit straight up that the child will be attending school paid by tax dollars, it will require medical coverage at tax payers expense and so forth. Lets glance at the other side of the coin here. The said child will grow up and mature to adulthood one day and it may contribute something to society eventually. It will pay taxes when it gets older it may even contribute to some great inventions or discoveries in any field one day. Imagine how much great minds could have been but were not allowed to.

Sexism woman have no rights: Alright now 'anti abortion imbeciles are just sexist bigots who get there kicks oppressing women, such is their state of mind; they are nothing but sexist idiots. It's her body and her choice no matter what.' or something pertaining to that logic. I'll start this here rebuttal by saying that I am against MEN and WOMEN aborting for no real reason or government forced abortions etc. As for the my body thing that has been covered previously in this post.

Lack of financial security for child, unready pregnancy: I won't use quotes as it is rather useless here. So we have a poor teen girl who tried everything to not get pregnant but it happened(I do feel sorry for her) and she is scared, insecure, feels her youth has been shattered. She then contemplates abortion she thinks it will be better for her and the child. Lets look at that yes it will make her better off for a while back to security but the child could have been adopted. Then one might say that the child would always be miserable no blood family to speak of and what not but that is not always the case for every adopted child. No one can straight faced say that every adopted child is always depressed to the clinical and chronic point without hope of recover. The child could have grown to be a successful, happy adult but that chance was blindly halted by the seemingly better for both sides abortion choice. One last thing here on this note some not all but some women have suffered from post-abortion depression, guilt and trauma as a result of abortion. It may happen to some women who choose it, would that possible depression and guilt be worth it more than the hardships of raising a child?


I'll just end this post saying that if abortion must go on happening(which it will) then there must be advances in the technology to be done within the first 1-3 weeks of development. In this way there will be more of a safeguard against the child feeling pain in it's abortion. I say this in that there has really never been any real conclusive study of which really tells when a fetus feels pain in it's development etc.

[FaustWolf]

Hey, welcome to the Compendium Master Garland. It takes some bravery to venture into this discussion as one of your first posts, I must say!

I think you dismiss the bodily argument much too hastily. An umbilical cord isn't just a piece of string; it demands a powerful sacrifice from the prospective mother's body. I'm not equipped to discuss all the effects of pregnancy, but my understanding is that they are absolutely huge.

That's what makes it simple for those who identify as pro-choice. We can talk about economics and social responsibility and moral justifications and hypotheticals till the cows come home, but at the center of all this lies the bedrock question of whether a woman's bodily autonomy should end once pregnancy begins. It's worth noting that a proper pro-choice stance would oppose forced abortions just as much as forced completion of pregnancy. The point is to entrust decisions regarding pregnancy to those who are pregnant, end of story.

I had a "moderate" stance on this question pretty much identical to yours for the longest time, but things became a lot clearer for me once the above point was made. Of all the possible positions, I think the moderate stance is the most unseemly now that I look back on it -- it essentially appeals to what's worst in us. How tempted we are to look at a person's heritage or physical quirks and judge their worth and potential based on those things! At least, that's what I found hiding in the dark of the back of my mind when I examined my own position more closely.

[Truthordeal]

I read this guy's post earlier today, and let me just say that I am so glad that it was FW and not Zeality that stumbled in here first. Forum goers with the stomach to debate these things are hard to keep.

[FaustWolf]

Well, Z's had a lot more experience with the issue than I have (and some forum members much, much moreso for obvious reasons!). It's a luxury to be able to discuss these things without striking out in a torrent of passion. That, and I was probably the only forum member stuck sipping cheap Pinot Noir on a Sunday and looking for something to do while writing all these cover letters, mwahaha.

[Radical_Dreamer]

Master Garland, you've debunked nothing, only shared with us your own opinions on the topic. You claim you are not a misogynist, but you seem to consider a cluster of cells without a brain, and thus, unaware of its own existence, as being of equal or greater value to a woman in possession of a conscious experience. Have I misjudged you here, or is it that you hold men in the same low regard as well?

[Master Garland]

Hey, welcome to the Compendium Master Garland. It takes some bravery to venture into this discussion as one of your first posts, I must say!

I think you dismiss the bodily argument much too hastily. An umbilical cord isn't just a piece of string; it demands a powerful sacrifice from the prospective mother's body. I'm not equipped to discuss all the effects of pregnancy, but my understanding is that they are absolutely huge.

That's what makes it simple for those who identify as pro-choice. We can talk about economics and social responsibility and moral justifications and hypotheticals till the cows come home, but at the center of all this lies the bedrock question of whether a woman's bodily autonomy should end once pregnancy begins. It's worth noting that a proper pro-choice stance would oppose forced abortions just as much as forced completion of pregnancy. The point is to entrust decisions regarding pregnancy to those who are pregnant, end of story.

I had a "moderate" stance on this question pretty much identical to yours for the longest time, but things became a lot clearer for me once the above point was made. Of all the possible positions, I think the moderate stance is the most unseemly now that I look back on it -- it essentially appeals to what's worst in us. How tempted we are to look at a person's heritage or physical quirks and judge their worth and potential based on those things! At least, that's what I found hiding in the dark of the back of my mind when I examined my own position more closely.

Thank you very much for the friendly greeting there FaustWolf It is fairly odd that this topic was the first of which I participated in for sure. This is just among some of the subjects I feel so strong about.

It is true as you say 'the decisions regarding pregnancy should ultimately be in the one who is pregnant's choice' but that does not dismiss the immorality of her abortion. Indeed the developing fetus does extract a fair chunk of it's mothers nutrients for development via the umbilical cord so in a sense the two are one but still separate.

I am semi-moderate in the subject at hand in that if the child will be chronically deformed with little to no hope of a normal existence or slight happiness that a mercy killing may be a good choice. I also have no dark recesses for my reasoning no matter how hard I have tried to search it out(yes I do a lot of soul searching in myself too) it is just how I feel is right.

I have had some personal relations with people who have considered abortion but chose against it. I am a bit acquainted with the matter personally. My mom was going to abort her oldest child my big sister but an angel came to her in the form of a woman passively leading her away from the abortion. I won't go into the details but it is a very beautiful story. The other one is my sister-in-law was going to abort her second child but through the grace of God she had a change of heart. The latter(my sister-in-law) had her first child at the young age of 15 and she has done wonderfully and her children are very happy at that.

With all thing in consideration I am a Christian and I know that every child that has and will be killed are going to be in heaven anyway. So they are happy and in peace in the long run.


NOTE: I am sorry for any offences I may have caused to you Lord J Esq, I just hope the they will not create any strident feelings between us; as I hate conflicts to be honest.


P.S. I am so very happy to be apart of the CC forums now, greetings to all.

[Sajainta]

First of all, welcome to the Compendium.

Why are you not against abortions for women who have been raped?  After all, isn't that woman killing a child as well?  Isn't that an immoral act as well?  Isn't that also a sin?  Why are some cases different?  If you are pro-life, shouldn't you be against abortion completely?

I have very strong opinions about abortion also, but not for the same reasons you do.  I am very firmly pro-choice, and I do not fully understand why people who are pro-life accept abortions in some cases, but are against them in others.

[ZeaLitY]

I read this guy's post earlier today, and let me just say that I am so glad that it was FW and not Zeality that stumbled in here first. Forum goers with the stomach to debate these things are hard to keep.

I check the forum regularly, and did "stumble" in here first. My give a damn about a conservative being wrong on the Internet was broken, but since you want me to make an appearance:

This is no God. There is no such thing as a soul. Fetuses are unfeeling, unconscious collections of cells, and are NOT human beings. A seed is not a tree; an egg is not a chicken; a fetus is not a baby. There is nothing in there; nothing awake, nothing aware, nothing human, and no identity. Anything else is religious romantic thinking and needless infringement upon women's rights.

[FaustWolf]

Going back to the armor subject for a bit, J dug up an excellent and though-provoking article worth sharing here.

[Katie Skyye]

http://www.forbes.com/sites/realspin/2012/04/16/its-time-that-we-end-the-equal-pay-myth/

I'm skeptical, of course, but it has some good points. I'm sure it runs deeper than "Well women choose different jobs!" but it's still interesting.

[jamesexia]

Hey, welcome to the Compendium Master Garland. It takes some bravery to venture into this discussion as one of your first posts, I must say!

I think you dismiss the bodily argument much too hastily. An umbilical cord isn't just a piece of string; it demands a powerful sacrifice from the prospective mother's body. I'm not equipped to discuss all the effects of pregnancy, but my understanding is that they are absolutely huge.

That's what makes it simple for those who identify as pro-choice. We can talk about economics and social responsibility and moral justifications and hypotheticals till the cows come home, but at the center of all this lies the bedrock question of whether a woman's bodily autonomy should end once pregnancy begins. It's worth noting that a proper pro-choice stance would oppose forced abortions just as much as forced completion of pregnancy. The point is to entrust decisions regarding pregnancy to those who are pregnant, end of story.

I had a "moderate" stance on this question pretty much identical to yours for the longest time, but things became a lot clearer for me once the above point was made. Of all the possible positions, I think the moderate stance is the most unseemly now that I look back on it -- it essentially appeals to what's worst in us. How tempted we are to look at a person's heritage or physical quirks and judge their worth and potential based on those things! At least, that's what I found hiding in the dark of the back of my mind when I examined my own position more closely.

Thank you very much for the friendly greeting there FaustWolf It is fairly odd that this topic was the first of which I participated in for sure. This is just among some of the subjects I feel so strong about.

It is true as you say 'the decisions regarding pregnancy should ultimately be in the one who is pregnant's choice' but that does not dismiss the immorality of her abortion. Indeed the developing fetus does extract a fair chunk of it's mothers nutrients for development via the umbilical cord so in a sense the two are one but still separate.

I am semi-moderate in the subject at hand in that if the child will be chronically deformed with little to no hope of a normal existence or slight happiness that a mercy killing may be a good choice. I also have no dark recesses for my reasoning no matter how hard I have tried to search it out(yes I do a lot of soul searching in myself too) it is just how I feel is right.

I have had some personal relations with people who have considered abortion but chose against it. I am a bit acquainted with the matter personally. My mom was going to abort her oldest child my big sister but an angel came to her in the form of a woman passively leading her away from the abortion. I won't go into the details but it is a very beautiful story. The other one is my sister-in-law was going to abort her second child but through the grace of God she had a change of heart. The latter(my sister-in-law) had her first child at the young age of 15 and she has done wonderfully and her children are very happy at that.

With all thing in consideration I am a Christian and I know that every child that has and will be killed are going to be in heaven anyway. So they are happy and in peace in the long run.


NOTE: I am sorry for any offences I may have caused to you Lord J Esq, I just hope the they will not create any strident feelings between us; as I hate conflicts to be honest.


P.S. I am so very happy to be apart of the CC forums now, greetings to all.

Took the words right out of my mouth, mostly. I do feel that it should be up to the mother to decide whither or not to have a child. People need to wake up and realize that this debate has become so politicized that it's almost impossible for many people to even have their own opinion. I see too many parrots on t.v. that spout their parties stance on many different topics. By the way, I fall somewhere in the middle. I don't want anyone trying to force me to be something or someone I'm clearly not. My dad was like that when I was growing up, of course he wasn't around most of the time. I'm not going to go any further down that road since I've went off the topic. Sorry

[Schala Zeal]

[Thought]

http://manboobz.com/2012/04/22/a-little-gender-experiment-confirms-that-reddit-is-full-of-douchebags/

[Radical_Dreamer]

 

I wish I could say that I'm surprised by those results, but at this point...it's more of a mix of anger and disappointment.