Chronotorious? Anyone heard of this before?

[FaustWolf]

EDIT: Yes, this group of musicians has secured a fan license through OneUp Studios. My apologies for pondering confusedly over the next few posts; this is literally my first exposure to the professional Western doujin music industry. I am most intrigued!

The July 22 date of this obscure news post shames us all as the world's most die-hard Chrono fans.
http://www.gamervision.com/gamer/coop/news/article/chrono_trigger_announcement_coming_august_11th_

tsk, tsk. Square Enix distracted us with that teaser website for Lords of Vermilion, which is why we didn't see this I guess. Turns out it's apparently a doujin music album of some sort...for sale. The irony is not lost on all of you, I'm sure, but I wish them the best. Here's more info:

http://www.nintendoeverything.com/?p=20497

http://stephsketches.blogspot.com/

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_BwM5DXQRwMg/SmfVVvCpn7I/AAAAAAAAAX0/NFKHxnpSI7M/s1600-h/chronotorious.jpg

Sooo, am I correctly understanding that this is actually a doujin album, and is for sale? Or did Square Enix commission this? Or, better yet, is there a fan licensing deal going on here? What is happening here?

I recall several Chrono-themed albums done by fans in Japan, and then put up for sale, but I guess I always thought there was some kind of licensing deal with Square Enix, Mitsuda, Digicube, or something. If people can remake Chrono music for profit, why can't they remake gameplay (or do novelizations, for that matter)? I'm definitely not familiar with the fan/doujin music industry though, so I really don't know the first thing about all this.

http://www.baddudesmusic.com/preorder.html


EDIT: We could probably start an investigation by contacting the artist, Stephanie, who might know who to direct us to at Bad Dudes Music. How the heck did they get a freaking licensing deal? Would it have been through Digicube as opposed to Square Enix legal directly?

EDIT: Looks like mazedude is one of the artists. Is he approachable over at OCRemix?

[FaustWolf]

That's a good find, though I'm certainly not one to judge. ZeaLitY has way more knowledge about the doujin music industry I imagine, so I'm looking forward to his observations on this.

So, would OneUp Studios have received permission from SE/Mitsuda/Digicube/etc. then? How does one approach a doujin publisher like this? Could it have some application to fangames, and other art forms besides music? I'm seriously, seriously intrigued.

EDIT: Oh, well, that turned out awkwardly. Eheh. The link I was referring to is here:
http://vgmdb.net/album/10846

Wait, OneUp Studios? Where've I heard that before? Is YbrikMetaKnight over there still?

[Vehek]

The post of mine I deleted:

Yeah, it is embarrassing that we didn't know earlier.

Do you think this is accurate?
http://vgmdb.net/album/10846
It says that OneUp Studios is publishing it.

So far, I guess Bad Dudes is a part of OneUp Studios (at least until recently; their site is fairly new according to a news post.)

[Zephira]

I'm pre ordering that riiiight now.
I'll write up a little review when it gets mailed

[FaustWolf]

Here's one thread from OneUp:
http://www.oneupstudios.com/boards/showthread.php?t=5794

Gaming news sites are picking up on it:
http://www.n4g.com/nintendods/News-371731.aspx

I guess I'm obsessing over this news because it begs two burning questions in the minds of those uninitiated in the doujin music industry:

1.) Why would Square Enix let for-profit arrangements of Chrono Trigger music slip under the radar when it's canning other, non-profit fanworks? Chrono Trigger OST is being re-released, so a souped-up fan arrangement is a direct competitor in the marketplace.

2.) Presuming that OneUp Studios specializes in acquiring fan licenses for this sort of thing, how does a fan group go about acquiring such a license in general?


EDIT: I guess I'll add...

3.) If there's no fan license involved in this, I presume it's not even Square Enix that owns the rights to the music of Chrono Trigger, but some other company with a far more liberal intellectual property attitude. But...agh, I just can't wrap my mind around this. Why didn't the Chrono Symphonic team just sell their album then?

[Zephira]

I'm looking through the song previews, and it's really sad how short the preview bits are. I think it ships on the eleventh, so I should get it sometime next week. The album costs ten dollars, and shipping is three bucks, 3-5 days.
I think I'm more looking forward to the poster/s that come/s with it. I saw the one on deviantArt (coulda sworn I linked it to someone here), and it's really cute. They'd better have a Magus poster!

[FaustWolf]

Aha, okay, so this must be licensed:

Commercial company providing officially-licensed arrangement albums

Also, it's right on their front page news: http://www.oneupstudios.com/

So, this is interesting. Where can we find out about the history of fan licenses in the doujin music industry, and how can we promote the disbursement and acquisition of fan licenses in other industries? How much would the license for Chronotorious have cost? I assume the limit of 1,000 copies may be related to the terms of the licensing deal.

And dare I ask...if modifying some notes on a music sheet is an activity ripe for licensing, why not modifying some game code? Or other types of intellectually propertized media, for that matter? Why the double standard?



EDIT: http://www.oneupstudios.com/about.php

Whoa, so the founders of OneUp just...got together and successfully approached videogame companies and/or music companies for the rights?



I want to learn how to do that.

[Zephira]

Just realized.. Zyko is one of the artists here. They have Mazedude and Dhsu, too. This is going to be one badass album. Is anyone else buying?

[Vehek]

And dare I ask...if modifying some notes on a music sheet is an activity ripe for licensing, why not modifying some game code? Or other types of intellectually propertized media, for that matter? Why the double standard?

What do you think of this?
http://forums.qhimm.com/index.php?topic=8691.msg112635#msg112635

The reason for the rule is this. SquareEnix has something called "goodwill", which is the perceived value of their intellectual property. (Like how much their copyright is worth in terms of cash.) Putting in characters that don't belong like Sonic, or tuning Chocobos into motorcycles, or throwing in Darth Vader for Sephy damages SquareEnix's goodwill.
(...)
Why do things like Overclocked music mixes get a pass? It's not because they don't charge for the CD. It's because Square perceives that such fan art does not damage their goodwill. Notice copyright doesn't even enter the argument. However, things like Chrono Resurrection DOES damage their goodwill. It makes their original work look like it has less value than someone else's.

Do you think this applies here?

[ONSLAUGHT]

I'm getting this.
And I am getting the poster.

EDIT: As for the other questions, I myself am going to have t look into that. I'm curious too...

[Mr Bekkler]

Do you think SE even knows about it? Selling it is a stupid idea, honestly. See you when you get out of jail. Tell Bubba I said "sup".

[ZeaLitY]

Oh, so it's this. Yeah, VGMDB has had it spoiled for a long time with their Bad Dudes listing (I guess it got changed to the proper name, now). OneUpStudios are one of the few outfits in the remix industry without egomaniacs, but I find myself agreeing a little with this guy:

By randy on Jul 26, 2009

making a limited release like this only assures that fewer people will purchase and more will pirate. no one cares about some lame liner notes with a poster on the back.

Z-girl, if you've preordered, thanks.

[FaustWolf]

Do you think SE even knows about it?

Sorry for confusedly pondering above, but it appears that they would indeed have secured a license for this. This is a completely legitimate for-sale album.

Vehek, thanks for pointing me to that explanation from halkun; that goes a long way toward answering my questions.

Still, that fangames would be interpreted as damaging goodwill (maybe "reputation" is a more appropriate terminology) whereas fan-made arrangement albums are not interpreted as such reflects a disdain for the quite frankly professional talent in all areas that exists throughout the fan community. It seems to me that the major difference is that the doujin music industry has a history of quality, whereas amateur fangaming has no professional history at all. The major exception that springs to mind is the group who successfully secured the rights to a King's Quest sequel.

A fangaming organization that has a history of churning out professional quality products, and specializes in securing licenses to make said fangames, may be what's needed. Some place that does for fangames what OneUp Studios does for fan music. OneUp had to start somewhere, and so did any professional doujin music group before them.

[Zephira]

When it arrives, should I post photos here or in the Chrono Collection thread?

[ONSLAUGHT]

Well I can tell you from common sense(so why am I explaining it. ) that that can mean only one thing. It had to start somewhere and one of two things is that either

A.) they made an album and a company had no problem. they made enough albums and gained their respect that way.
or the more unfortunate method...
B.) Someone did something illegally got into a case about it and by some holy miracle actually won when every sign in the universe pointed them to the path of failure.

If they managed to pull B, I'm impressed. Defying the gods themselves. And that's for music. An entire game I don't think that second ones going to work unless
A.) the company is EXTREMELY tender and kind to everyone.
or
B.) They're the biggest, cruelest, d-bags in the world and the judge is willing to "make an expection" just to get at the jerks.

But as mean as SE can be they don't file under either of those so we'd best stick with A if we want to attempt anything. SO! Anyone willing to head off to another community for awhile with a not really caring company behind the series and make numerous well done fan games? I'd be willing to do so, if only I knew a series with a laid back company AND if I knew how to make a game. That's the only route I'm seeing sadly. Any other ideas would be great cause I'm bringing myself down.