Author Topic: Armchair Economists, Unite!  (Read 13053 times)

FaustWolf

  • Guru of Time Emeritus
  • Arbiter (+8000)
  • *
  • Posts: 8972
  • Fan Power Advocate
    • View Profile
Re: Armchair Economists, Unite!
« Reply #120 on: September 04, 2011, 12:43:16 am »
I mentioned the Environmental Protection Agency regulation decision in the Frustration Thread already, but here's some useful economic analysis from Paul Krugman about it.

Lennis

  • Chronopolitan (+300)
  • *
  • Posts: 396
    • View Profile
Re: Armchair Economists, Unite!
« Reply #121 on: September 04, 2011, 11:39:55 pm »
Faust, after reading Krugman's analysis and all of the attached comments, I have come to one - hardly surprising - conclusion.

Obama is in real trouble.  If an agent of change is unable to champion a long-term investment for the common good (environmental regulation), then what hope is there politically for that agent?  What hope is there for any of us?  I think the big story of the 2012 elections won't be who wins, but how many people stay home that Tuesday...

FaustWolf

  • Guru of Time Emeritus
  • Arbiter (+8000)
  • *
  • Posts: 8972
  • Fan Power Advocate
    • View Profile
Re: Armchair Economists, Unite!
« Reply #122 on: September 05, 2011, 01:14:24 am »
Yup, I have exactly the same fear. The best thing the Obama administration has in its favor right now is the total lunacy of some of the Republican front-runners.

The thing that really worries me about the EPA regulation cave-in is that the debate isn't even centering on whether the scientists' conclusions are correct. It seems to be centering on whether progress in public health is something that's okay to give up on. Dark days indeed.

Not that I think this necessarily reflects on President Obama's attitudes toward health and safety standards; I don't view this as a moral retreat. His economic advisors - hmm, I wonder where a lot of them came from? - are probably telling him precisely that "uncertainty" is the great demon plaguing our economy, so best not to stir up the waters any more in the short term. Tucked within the assumptions of that worldview, the EPA compromise becomes more of a gray issue.

But as saltwater economists like Krugman and Reich point out, the problem could very well be that corporations are sitting on excess cash that needs to be spent on workers (or on capital, and by association, workers), so the demand side of the economy can pick up again. When you look at the world that way, there is a much stronger economic case in favor of tougher regulations as long as they force some kind of investment that can lead to additional employment.


I'm looking forward to what happens once Alan Kreuger is in place; he strikes me as being more on the radical side of economic theory judging from the coverage so far, so maybe he'll shake things up in a good way.
« Last Edit: September 05, 2011, 01:31:22 am by FaustWolf »

tushantin

  • CC:DBT Dream Team
  • Hero of Time (+5000)
  • *
  • Posts: 5645
  • Under Your Moonlight, Stealing Your Stars
    • View Profile
    • My Website
Re: Armchair Economists, Unite!
« Reply #123 on: September 05, 2011, 08:01:09 am »
I don't know half of what you guys are talking about, but...

I think the big story of the 2012 elections won't be who wins, but how many people stay home that Tuesday...
... that sounds disturbing.

FaustWolf

  • Guru of Time Emeritus
  • Arbiter (+8000)
  • *
  • Posts: 8972
  • Fan Power Advocate
    • View Profile
Re: Armchair Economists, Unite!
« Reply #124 on: September 05, 2011, 08:25:26 pm »
I don't know half of what you guys are talking about, but...

I think the big story of the 2012 elections won't be who wins, but how many people stay home that Tuesday...
... that sounds disturbing.
Since we have an intractable two-party system here that makes it relatively difficult for third-party candidates to rise up, people just giving up on voting altogether is a great concern. It's a vicious cycle: too few people decide the fate of many through their exercise of the vote, but then the people who don't vote aren't seeing candidates - and more importantly, policy goals - that appeal to them anyway, so they really find no reason to care. At least, that's how I think of it. I wonder how our voter turnout rate here in the US compares to that in multiparty parliamentary systems? I can't believe I've never even thought to check this out before.


Since I mentioned Robert Reich (the "ch" is soft like "sh" in his name BTW -- I feel compelled to point this out, eheheh), here's an article he wrote for the New York Times just recently. A good read IMO.

FaustWolf

  • Guru of Time Emeritus
  • Arbiter (+8000)
  • *
  • Posts: 8972
  • Fan Power Advocate
    • View Profile
Re: Armchair Economists, Unite!
« Reply #125 on: September 05, 2011, 08:55:53 pm »
Aaaah! Squeee~! Robert Reich did an IAmA at Reddit just three days ago!! This is like Christmas for econ students; too bad I missedt he party.

http://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/k2oel/im_robert_reich_former_secretary_of_labor_author/

This is hugely important for anyone who doesn't know who Robert Reich is, as far as seeing why he's such a meaningful figurehead for saltwater (or, if you prefer, "progressive") economics. Just reading through his replies is enough to make one a fan of the guy.

Quote from: a redditor
Q. Has Obama tried to contact and get advice from more progressive economists like yourself and Krugman, or has he stuck with the more center-left economic minds on his cabinet and staff?

Quote from: Robert Reich
A. Krugman and I met with him last January. Joe Stiglitz was also at that meeting. Haven't heard from the President since then.

 :(  Quite saddened by that exchange though.

You can always follow Reich on his blog: http://www.robertreich.org/
« Last Edit: September 05, 2011, 09:09:47 pm by FaustWolf »

tushantin

  • CC:DBT Dream Team
  • Hero of Time (+5000)
  • *
  • Posts: 5645
  • Under Your Moonlight, Stealing Your Stars
    • View Profile
    • My Website

tushantin

  • CC:DBT Dream Team
  • Hero of Time (+5000)
  • *
  • Posts: 5645
  • Under Your Moonlight, Stealing Your Stars
    • View Profile
    • My Website
Re: Armchair Economists, Unite!
« Reply #127 on: September 20, 2011, 04:44:24 am »
I checked on my Google Reader gadget in my Gmail Inbox and saw the headlines, "Obama unveils $3".

....WTF?! Is the economy that bad?! :o

Clicking on it, I found... probably good news: http://www.cnn.com/2011/09/19/politics/obama-debt/index.html

Lord J Esq

  • Moon Stone J
  • Hero of Time (+5000)
  • *
  • Posts: 5463
  • ^_^ "Ayla teach at college level!!"
    • View Profile
Re: Armchair Economists, Unite!
« Reply #128 on: September 20, 2011, 04:56:53 am »
Hey, $3 is $3. That's the difference between a jug of milk and no milk. Obama 2012!

FaustWolf

  • Guru of Time Emeritus
  • Arbiter (+8000)
  • *
  • Posts: 8972
  • Fan Power Advocate
    • View Profile
Re: Armchair Economists, Unite!
« Reply #129 on: September 21, 2011, 11:15:52 pm »
Back in the day, you could take just about anything to the grister and that person would grind it up into something useful. Very little was rejected; the grister didn't wait for grain of the most impossibly golden hue to come along, but immediately set to work drawing out its potential. If the customer batted an eye or answered a question a shade incorrectly while offering their stuff to the grister, did the grister turn them away? No -- that would be waste. Well, it's an ideal I can't help but romantically fancy while looking at the Wikipedia stub, anyway.

Why is this important? Because our economy needs many, many more gristers if it's going to recover. People who run businesses like this.

I've seen it, and I've done it, as a tutor and volunteer coordinator. Right now, if you have a little compassion and the time that monetary comfort affords, you can take any one of the unemployed or underemployed and equip them with sustainable capacities they might never have dreamed of themselves. And that's in addition to the folks who know exactly what they're capable of but keep getting booted out of the system. The economic malaise we're seeing in the developed world right now reflects our lack of gristers.
« Last Edit: September 21, 2011, 11:45:50 pm by FaustWolf »

tushantin

  • CC:DBT Dream Team
  • Hero of Time (+5000)
  • *
  • Posts: 5645
  • Under Your Moonlight, Stealing Your Stars
    • View Profile
    • My Website
Re: Armchair Economists, Unite!
« Reply #130 on: September 22, 2011, 07:51:49 pm »
*blinks* But... we still have gristers. Yeah, they're shutting down slowly in the cities as industries pick up (Capitalist influence, oh, the horror!) but we certainly do have em!

Wait, are you talking about the encouragement of local, small-scale industries or agricultural pursuit? Frankly, I choose both.  :D

FaustWolf

  • Guru of Time Emeritus
  • Arbiter (+8000)
  • *
  • Posts: 8972
  • Fan Power Advocate
    • View Profile
Re: Armchair Economists, Unite!
« Reply #131 on: September 23, 2011, 01:21:07 am »
Eheh, I didn't mean to suggest we need to literally make millers out of all the unemployed. I'm merely drawn to the grister in a metaphorical sense; I like the ideal of accepting whatever a person's got to give and helping them turn it to use.

The thing that horrifies me about capitalism as it's being practiced here in the US is how it crushes human capital and potential; the traditional hiring process isn't so much about recruiting talent as it is casting talent by the wayside and keeping it unemployed, or underemployed. The economic climate has laid this fact bare, but it didn't create it. Outside every hiring office there needs to be someone - private, government, quite frankly I don't care - who has a grister's spirit. Full employment is not an un-achievable goal.

tushantin

  • CC:DBT Dream Team
  • Hero of Time (+5000)
  • *
  • Posts: 5645
  • Under Your Moonlight, Stealing Your Stars
    • View Profile
    • My Website
Re: Armchair Economists, Unite!
« Reply #132 on: October 31, 2011, 04:35:47 pm »
I was reading some of my usual subscriptions to Psychology journals, until I caught this article:
http://www.rgj.com/article/20111011/NEWS20/110090349/Fact-Checker-U-S-land-Haves-Nots-?odyssey=mod|newswell|text|News|s

Let's toss rocks at people so they can give us their money!

Kodokami

  • Entity
  • Dimension Crosser (+1000)
  • *
  • Posts: 1110
  • Enjoy the moment!
    • View Profile
Re: Armchair Economists, Unite!
« Reply #133 on: November 01, 2011, 01:08:27 pm »
http://www.rgj.com/article/20111011/NEWS20/110090349/Fact-Checker-U-S-land-Haves-Nots-?odyssey=mod
Quote
...the poorest one-fifth of the population in the United States is still richer than the richest one-fifth in India.
I'm curious as to how accurate this is, and by what definition they are using for "poor."

tushantin

  • CC:DBT Dream Team
  • Hero of Time (+5000)
  • *
  • Posts: 5645
  • Under Your Moonlight, Stealing Your Stars
    • View Profile
    • My Website
Re: Armchair Economists, Unite!
« Reply #134 on: November 01, 2011, 03:30:19 pm »
http://www.rgj.com/article/20111011/NEWS20/110090349/Fact-Checker-U-S-land-Haves-Nots-?odyssey=mod
Quote
...the poorest one-fifth of the population in the United States is still richer than the richest one-fifth in India.
I'm curious as to how accurate this is, and by what definition they are using for "poor."
Okay, I have a few questions for you. How often do you have Pizza? How many times do you eat out? What is the condition of your home? How easy is it to get into a good (private) school*? What is the average percentage of the population that can afford a car? Did you actually pay for your copy of Windows, Photoshop, Flash, etc. for Desktop PCs**? How many months of salary would it take you to join a good university, such as film-making (or alternatively, buy a Macbook)? Would you rather have TV cable connection or watch movies on Netflix or Cinemas, and if the latter how often do you do so? How many have internet? In your city, what is the percentage of the population that relies on Internet, or how many actually know how to use a computer? How many have iPhones, iPads or other smartphones? How many have bank accounts? How many of them depend on Ration Cards for their morsel? What kind of food do you have everyday? What kind of a toilet do you have in your house? Is your wash basin at an arm's reach of your sofa in your living room? Alternatively, is your toilet in the kitchen, or you have no toilet at all and have to depend of public ones?

There are more important questions I wanted to ask, but I refrain from doing so because they're incredibly depressing and this list of questions is already too long.

*I said "private", because Government schools are cheap enough. My own family was poor from the get go and we couldn't afford good private schools. The government school I went to was situated just besides a huge garbage pit. And it smelled.
**I didn't say laptops because you mostly get it pre-installed. Also tell me what average processor do the majority use.

EDITED FOR REMOVAL OF OFFENDING CONTENT.
« Last Edit: November 01, 2011, 03:35:13 pm by tushantin »