What gives the Mystics magic?

[Mr Bekkler]

There were no sentient monsters IN Zeal (or any of Antiquity). None of them could speak, thus, they were not Mystics.

[Vehek]

What about the Mud Imp? He talks.

[Bigvinu]

many of them could simply be the products of Zealian technology.  Most mystics are vulnerable to magic, or weapons that are particularly tailored to damage mystics, among which that ones that I remember off the top of my head (at least one sword for Frog) are also related to Zeal.  I've generally gotten the impression that Zeal was a kingdom established through warfare, so the early 'mystics' could've been cannon fodder for Zeal.  Bearing magic/tailored weapons they exercise control over the mystics.  Then when the kingdom falls/without magic to maintain control over the mystics, they spread out into the wilds and propagate and evolve as the years go by.

If they were indeed used by Zeal in such a manner, that would certainly give them cause for hating humanity later on.  Since Janus was there, he might also know more particulars for keeping the mystics in line.

But we don't find many of these mystic creatures anywhere in 12,000 B.C. You can make the argument that Mount Woe creatures evolved into Mystics, but the key problem with that theory is that Mt. Woe Creatures (on the whole) don't really resemble 600 A.D. mystics enough to have become them in 13,000 years. Possible ET origins? Probably not, but possible.

[wsdragon]

I think that the creatures on Mt. Woe (Creatures such as the imp, gargoyle, ogans, and the birds carrying the imps) are the early ancestors of the Mystics that we see in 600 A.D.  These early mystics were NOT creations of zeal as shown in CTDS where we see that similar "early mystics" appear in the Lost Sanctum (Reptite dimension, lavos didn't fall). 

The early mystics that we see in 12000BC tend to be more primitive in that they rely more on brute strength (which is why they're stronger physically), don't have knowledge of magic (magic is usually associated with intelligence), and their bodies are colored to allow them to camouflage with their surroundings better (as opposed to the more brightly-colored mystics in 600AD). 

So now, I have two questions:

1.  Did the "early mystics" in the Lost Sanctum have "magic"?  Some of them could use abilities such as Thunder II and Lightning II (if i remember correctly).  Does that count?  If so then that should shed some light on where mystics got their magical abilities from (the planet, not lavos).

2.   If mystics weren't created in zeal and even appear in a dimension where humans died early on and lavos didn't fall, then where did they come from?  Were they created by repitites?  Or have they always been around and in hiding since 65 million bc?

[Mr Bekkler]

IIRC, those in the lost sanctum were not mystics, and weren't even called fiends. the reptites there just called them monsters.

[Acacia Sgt]

Still, some of the creatures there used magic (Like the Kingfrog using Thunder II), so even if they aren't Mystics (keep in mind that Mystic is a term for a variety of races, so if there are creatures of the same type, it could still count as), this still proves something since they managed without Lavos, so why not the Mystics could too?

[Thought]

Mystics are (most-likely) humans, so their magical abilities would come from the same place as a human's magical ability (which is implied to be an effect of Lavoid-Radiation, aka the Frozen Flame). Spekkio groups mystics in with humans when he is talking about magic:

You are strong of will...!                 /    Hm?
That's why the Old One let you       /    You guys have it.
through.                                       /    Power of the heart......
                                                   /    I get it, that's why the old man outside let you
                                                   /    in here.

Long before you were born...         /    Long before you guys were born......
...there was a kingdom where        /    There was a kingdom that prospered by magic.
magic flourished.                          /
Everyone there could use it!          /     Everyone in that world used magic.
                                       
But in time, people began to abuse /    But that country grew addicted to magical power
their powers. It got so bad that no  /    and was destroyed......
one was allowed to use magic         /    After that, people became unable to use magic.
except wizards.                             /    Except for the Demons anyway.

But you have it...determination, I   /    But you guys've got it. Strength of the heart.
mean!                                          /
Magic needs power of the heart.     /
It needs inner strength.                 /    Magic's the heart's strength, power.

Mystics might be different than humans, but if so, then Spekkio's comment regarding them is very non-sequitur.

Humans, as well as mystics, seem capable of drawing energy directly from the planet. The sun stone can't be powered by Lavos as there is a distinction made between the elemental energy that Zealeans used to use and the Lavos-based power they switched to. As Dalton clearly was able to use magic after the fall of zeal, the Zealeans who claimed they could no longer use magic seem to be referencing personal limitations, not that the ability was actually lost. Possibly they just didn't remember how to tap into the planet anymore.

As for why Mystics look different, meh, I'm not convinced that they are different. Humans are a bit of an anomaly in that we are a very homogenous species (there was a bottleneck in our ancestry. All modern humans came from a single small group of early humans; if I recall correctly, that group was around 1,000 individuals, though I may be forgetting a zero).

Consider the wide variety of dogs: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_dog_breeds
Different "breeds" of a species can take on radically different morphologies and still be inter-related. As such, it seems to me that since the game treats them as a single species, one would need some specific evidence to argue that they are in fact separate races.

[GenesisOne]

Hmm...

The Woosley Translation didn't offer such an answer as to whether the mystics inherited magical abilities or not.

On the other hand, the DS Translation offers more insight to whom the magic was passed on to.  This is not to say that Mystics are demons.

If they are, then Mystics are simply the result of many years of natural selection and variables evolution after the fall of Zeal.

[Truthordeal]

Perhaps the Mystics did evolve from humanity, but just chose a life closer to the Planet, and therefore were able to use magic more easily than humans, who had chosen to strive for technology.

[alfadorredux]

@Thought: The term used by Spekkio in the section you've bolded is people, though, not humans, and you can have personhood without belonging to a particular species. The Mystics (IMHO) are not humans, but I would say they were definitely people. (Unfortunately, I'm pretty sure that Japanese uses the same word--ningen--for both concepts, making it difficult to tell what was really meant.)

[ZealKnight]

Let me point out it can't be Lavos or Magus. They exist in the Reptite dimension. This was proven in CT:DS. The only plausible option other than alien(which could be it considering Lavos is an alien) is that it is the sun stone.

I've actually made a topic about this, well their origin at least. Mystics are sort of an anomaly in the series.

http://www.chronocompendium.com/Forums/index.php/topic,6907.0.html

[Mr Bekkler]

Why would there be no Lavos in the Reptite Dimension?
 

[Truthordeal]

Lavos' fall to the earth is what killed off the Reptites by bringing in an ice age. If the Reptites survived, then  Lavos must not have fallen.

That's the implication here, anyway. There's probably another possibility, but I don't know of it just yet.

[Mr Bekkler]

Oya I forgot.

[Acacia Sgt]

No, I think it's definitely that one. After all, Lavos didn't fell either in the Dragonian Dimension, and they survived too.