What gives the Mystics magic?

[Xenterex]

There were no sentient monsters IN Zeal (or any of Antiquity). None of them could speak, thus, they were not Mystics.

'Sentience' isn't necessary in the "now" when the species could develop it at a latter generation.  Furthermore the "in zeal" absolution is a misconception of thought.  Who says Chrono and party got to see all there is of Zeal?  They certainly didn't visit the north palace.  Nor do I think they see all of the laboratories of the Guru's, or any other prominent mind that might've been in Zeal.  Unless you have some sort of out of game map and tourist guide attraction book + the black market secrets, I certainly love to hear all their is to be had of Zeal.

If my notions of them (that is early 'mystics') having potentially been viewed as weapons/fodder, esp crude ones at that, then they wouldn't be kept around the populace.  Additionally, Masu and Mune are certainly prospects at the possibility of sentience in non-Zealean entities;  Even if they are creatures related to the dreamstone.  Doesn't/isn't the Masamune [supposed to] have an anti-mystic property?  Then maybe mystics share a connection to the dreamstone.

[utunnels]

Maybe they origin from former monsters trained by Zealian.
Hmm, strange this is a voting topic.

[Mr Bekkler]

No, I think it's definitely that one. After all, Lavos didn't fell either in the Dragonian Dimension, and they survived too.

They evolved from Reptites. So we're talking about the same one.

There were no sentient monsters IN Zeal (or any of Antiquity). None of them could speak, thus, they were not Mystics.

'Sentience' isn't necessary in the "now" when the species could develop it at a latter generation.

I don't know what you're getting at here.

Furthermore the "in zeal" absolution is a misconception of thought.  Who says Chrono and party got to see all there is of Zeal?  They certainly didn't visit the north palace.  Nor do I think they see all of the laboratories of the Guru's, or any other prominent mind that might've been in Zeal.  Unless you have some sort of out of game map and tourist guide attraction book + the black market secrets, I certainly love to hear all their is to be had of Zeal.

Okay, Mr. All-Knowing. There are no sentient monsters SEEN IN GAME IN ZEAL. Pardon the fact that I assume everyone knows what I'm talking about is based entirely on in-game evidence. Not some made up black market extra section of Zeal that you want to believe exists. Thanks anyway, Mulder. But it doesn't really prove or disprove anything.

If my notions of them (that is early 'mystics') having potentially been viewed as weapons/fodder, esp crude ones at that, then they wouldn't be kept around the populace. 

If nothing else, that statement only supports what I said about there being no Mystics in Zeal.

Additionally, Masu and Mune are certainly prospects at the possibility of sentience in non-Zealean entities;  Even if they are creatures related to the dreamstone.  Doesn't/isn't the Masamune [supposed to] have an anti-mystic property?  Then maybe mystics share a connection to the dreamstone.

Possible there is a connection and you are almost correct, but Masa and Mune were created from dreams as well as dreamstone. If they share an anti-Mystic property, it's possible the Mystics or the Frozen Flame have connections with nightmares. I'm thinking equal but opposite forces, key word being opposite.

[Acacia Sgt]

No, I think it's definitely that one. After all, Lavos didn't fell either in the Dragonian Dimension, and they survived too.

They evolved from Reptites. So we're talking about the same one.

No, you are referring to the dragonians, and I to the reptites.

[ZealKnight]

Ok so they were evolved from reptites? That seems illogical. If they did, how so? I would guess magic, but the magic sources are different for each dimension. How do suppose they evolved?

[Mr Bekkler]

No, you are referring to the dragonians, and I to the reptites.

I was referring to the "Reptite Dimension", which is also the Dragonian Dimension, depending on WHEN you're looking. The WHERE is the same.

Ok so they were evolved from reptites? That seems illogical. If they did, how so? I would guess magic, but the magic sources are different for each dimension. How do suppose they evolved?

From the Encyclopedia:

The Dragonians are an evolved form of Reptites. They came to exist in the Reptite Dimension as the Reptites evolved over millions of years; they grew in close harmony with nature, fashioning their dwellings out of natural material that did not disrupt the ecosystem.

I promise I'm not making this stuff up. There IS a website, too.

[Acacia Sgt]

Actually, how can it be so sure that both are the same dimension? No evidence of support, I think.

[Mr Bekkler]

What leads you to believe that they are not the same dimension? Especially when the Encyclopedia says the exact opposite of that claim? I don't understand how you claim there's no evidence.

[Acacia Sgt]

I've searched the encyclopedia, yet I found nothing about it. So, what is the evidence?

Besides, by the dimension's equivalent 600 AD, shouldn't those Reptites we see have already been Dragonians? If it really were the same dimension, they should be.

[Mr Bekkler]

The evidence is four posts up, where I quoted and linked the specific page of the Encyclopedia that you don't believe exists.

And there seems to be some confusion. Reptites and Dragonians weren't biologically all that different. The latter came from the former, so they don't need to look all that different.

Also, there's no reason to think that the "Reptite Dimension" you see in CT DS is actually in the same year as their Gate entrances. If the Gate crosses dimensions, it's surely capable of crossing time as well.

[Acacia Sgt]

I never wrote I thought it didn't existed.

Instead that I didn't found a mention of the CTDS place in the Reptite and Locations related entries, and, as such, evidence.

[Mr Bekkler]

The place is the Dimensional Vortex, and you're not going to find any mention of it in the Chrono Cross pages. That's why Z is doing updates.

But what evidence are you talking about? What claim has not been proved or disproved already? We're going off topic. So I ask again, what leads you to believe it is not the same place? There is evidence that implies it is the same place, but there is no evidence that implies it is not.

[ZealKnight]

I'm also confused on what the argument is?

[Mr Bekkler]

I'm also confused on what the argument is?

He's claiming that something unspecific that I said is wrong based on evidence or lack thereof.

I don't understand either. Waiting for clarification.

[Acacia Sgt]

Okay, so, what other evidence there is that implies it is the same?

You can't use that enyclopedia entry since CTDS never refers to the place as 'a Reptite's Dimension', to even think it's implied it's the same place. The game refers it as the 'Lost Sanctum'.

The reptites aren't evidence either, since as we know there are an unknown number of dimensions, it's highly likely they may exist in many of them, so their existance alone doesn't make it a 'reptite's dimension'.

And, if the evolution to Dragonians was natural, then there can't be a Gaia's Navel like sceneraio (isolation from the rest of the world caused them to not change like the rest) for these Reptites.

As for time differneces, yes, there is a chance is not parallel, yet there are many factor that still imply a large gap of years. From turning the Saintstone to Waystone, the ladder that breaks in Mount Emerald, the fact they forgot of the Ancient Tower with the statues, etc.

Yeah, this got off-topic, but that is to be expected. You claim it is the same, so I ask how, but that first evidence you brought isn't enough since it can be denied with the above.

If only I could remember where discussion about the Lost Sanctum was, this could be solved already.