What gives the Mystics magic?

[ZealKnight]

It is interesting that these Mystic-like creatures are only found on Mt. Woe, a notably Zealean construct. Like the rest of Zeal, this mountain is floating, indicating direct Enlightened One activities. Indeed, depending on when one believes that Zeal was raised, it may even imply a direct connection to Lavos energy.

Very interesting indeed. While Mt. Woe was obviously made by the Enlightened, it was not actually a part of Zeal. Still it may indicate origins, even if the indication is loose and flimsy. Like you said, it all depends on when.

How do you know it was made by the enlightened?

http://www.chronocompendium.com/Term/Mt._Woe.html

We only refer to it as a prison. I only bring this up because my last post was about it being a natural mountain that the Zealians used as a prison. (much like the Russians use to do with Siberia)

[Mr Bekkler]

  I was going to include in that post that it was basically like when England  first discovered Australia. Exiles and criminals were sent there. They didn't really value it.

  What else could make it float if not the magi-technology of the Enlightened?

[ZealKnight]

I'm sure they made it float, but I don't think they made the Mystics there. What I'm getting at is that maybe the Pre-Mystics already lived there and Zeal just thought it would be a great prison to throw criminals with a bunch of demons. Mainly there is no proof that the Mystics were created by the Enlightened, in fact the Soul Sanctum proves against that theory. I don't know if thats what you meant but I still think we should clarify.

[Mr Bekkler]

I was strictly talking about the floating mechanism in Mt. Woe. Not about the Enlightened creating the Mystics themselves.

[Truthordeal]

All of the Pre-Mystics there were probably the ancestors of the Mystics as we know them, just judging on where the landmasses are on the maps.

How they survived a mountain crashing into an ocean like that enough to evolve is beyond me.

[Acacia Sgt]

How they survived a mountain crashing into an ocean like that enough to evolve is beyond me.

Well, if there is a chance they could think of something to survive (air-lifted by the birds? Ran to the bottom, find the chain, and climb down? Or another way is possible?), perhaps.

[Thought]

Magic isn't something that's inherited though. Magic was given to humankind by Lavos through the Frozen Flame. They steadily grew to evolve out of using it after Zeal fell.

Same thing, really; evolutionary traits are hereditary. We would agree, I think, that Lavos doesn't "give" magic to every human who can use magic; at best he gave it to a few ancestors and things went from there. Hence, that is why Ayla can't use magic even though she is alive (unlike Robo); she lacks the genes. It would be a curious thing if Lavos gave Crono, Marle, Lucca, and Frog the ability to use magic, yes?

Of course, giving humans magic may not have been an intentional effect of Lavos (and mind, magic is just the assumed result of Lavos, since that is the only clear evolutionary change between Ayla's people and the Enlightened ones). Simple exposure to the anti-annihilation energies of the beastie may have done it as a side effect.

How do you know it was made by the enlightened?

It is a series of floating landforms lashed together by chains, populated by semi-intelligent mystic-like creatures who have mastered the art of taming and riding beasts, it is used as a prison, and its warden appears to be a magical golem-like construct. That is a lot of unnatural things for it to be a naturally occurring anything.

It clearly isn't a construct in the sense that the Ocean Palace is a construct, but it ain't natural and the Earthbounders clearly don't have the power to create something like that. Perhaps it might be prudent to say it is a construct along the lines of a stocked dam lake; humans tend not to create the water itself, we just create the circumstances that allow a lake to form.

Mainly there is no proof that the Mystics were created by the Enlightened, in fact the Soul Sanctum proves against that theory. I don't know if thats what you meant but I still think we should clarify.

Not at all. For one the canonicity of CTDS is debatable (for example, did Crono & Co "really" meet the Dream Devourer? If so, isn't that a temporal paradox since from their POV they hadn't defeated Lavos yet?). For another, assuming that CTDS truly indicative of true Chrono History, if the Mystics are merely a branch of humanity, then it makes sense that they'd still exist in a Reptite/Dragonian dimension. Indeed, it is only if the Mystics are a direct result of Lavos or a specific artificial construct of Zeal that they should not exist in those dimensions.

[Acacia Sgt]

Not at all. For one the canonicity of CTDS is debatable (for example, did Crono & Co "really" meet the Dream Devourer? If so, isn't that a temporal paradox since from their POV they hadn't defeated Lavos yet?).

Not at all, remember Magus's words.

[Xenterex]

And yes, I pointed out a possibility that would not disrupt canon. That's all it was, man.

 So, are you insinuating that my suggestion disrupts canon?  Either way, there is still a lack of direct evidence of 'magical waste'.  So it makes things fairly hypocritical to demand what you yourself don't have.  Granted, I can agree with the idea, its just you're writing by a double standard here.

Evidence? Show me a screenshot of a Mystic in Zeal from in-game. I could not find one.  

Should I show you half the monsters of the risen Ocean Palace/ Black Omen and any other monster type that receives bonus damage from weapons like the demon killer and demon hit??  It's already been mentioned that Mt. Woe has monsters that share sprites with mystics, and its been argued it to be a product of Zeal, so you're trying to qualify your stance with conditions.  

Granted there is a slight problem in this.  Just because a monster shares a sprite set, or even takes the damage modifier from being a 'magic enemy' does that make them a mystic?  Or is it only that mystics are called mystics at the time of Magus' war because that's the name they chose to give themselves.  And one that is known by their ancestors?  In which case there wouldn't be "mystics" in Zeal; just magical monsters.

I'm sure they made it float, but I don't think they made the Mystics there

It's possible Zeal might have sent the mystics there to remove them from the vicinity of Zeal.  Even Guardia Kingdom has monsters roving about its territory.

[Mr Bekkler]

Evidence? Show me a screenshot of a Mystic in Zeal from in-game. I could not find one. 

Should I show you half the monsters of the risen Ocean Palace/ Black Omen and any other monster type that receives bonus damage from weapons like the demon killer and demon hit??  It's already been mentioned that Mt. Woe has monsters that share sprites with mystics, and its been argued it to be a product of Zeal, so you're trying to qualify your stance with conditions. 

Granted there is a slight problem in this.  Just because a monster shares a sprite set, or even takes the damage modifier from being a 'magic enemy' does that make them a mystic?  Or is it only that mystics are called mystics at the time of Magus' war because that's the name they chose to give themselves.  And one that is known by their ancestors?  In which case there wouldn't be "mystics" in Zeal; just magical monsters.

Just like Mt. Woe, the Ocean Palace (/ Black Omen) was a product of Zeal. Yes it came from 12000BC.

[Bigvinu]

For some reason Chrono and Co.'s actions in Zeal do not seem to have a tangible impact on Mystics.

Let's take a look at the apocalypse timeline (no changes from Chrono and Co.)

- Mt. Woe never has it's chain severed
- Lavos awaked and goes on rampage
- Zeal falls to earth and starts massive flooding
- Mt. Woe's elevation may spare it from massive flooding.
- Magic wears of and Mt. Woe eventually falls to sea, but some may survive


Then at the Keystone Timeline (changes by Chrono and Co.)

- Mt. Woe chain severed
- Lavos awakened and destroys Zeal
- Zeal debris falls to the Earth and causes flooding
- Mount Woe no longer on a high enough elevation to save it from flooding
- Mystics still appear unchanged between the Apocalypse Timeline and right after Chrono and Co. make an impact on 12,000 B.C.

Could this mean that Mt. Woe is an irrelevant factor?
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[ZealKnight]

- Mount Woe no longer on a high enough elevation to save it from flooding

Who says so?

[Acacia Sgt]

- Mount Woe no longer on a high enough elevation to save it from flooding

Who says so?

The cutscene that shows the chain breaking and the mountain falling into the ocean.

Could this mean that Mt. Woe is an irrelevant factor?
-

Well, it depends. It's the creatures on it rather than the place itself. Who knows if there were other places where they could have been living.

[ZealKnight]

- Mount Woe no longer on a high enough elevation to save it from flooding

Who says so?

The cutscene that shows the chain breaking and the mountain falling into the ocean.

That cut scene never says that it's low enough to sink. How do you know the mountain you can't enter behind the village wasn't Mt. Woe I always thought so.

[Acacia Sgt]

It's not floating.