Before you donate to the Salvation Army...

[ZeaLitY]

Yes, those people.

Before you donate to the Salvation Army, it's important to know that [1] they're a tax-exempt, non-financial statement-publishing religious organization (as they put it, "an international branch of the Christian church") and [2] they have an agenda. You can read their positions on certain issues here:

http://www.salvationarmyusa.org/usn/www_usn_2.nsf/vw-dynamic-index/B6F3F4DF3150F5B585257434004C177D?Opendocument

They're against abortion, think gays should be celibate in order to be in harmony with Christian scripture, deny marriage to gays, and promote abstinence. They also have a self-victimizing section condemning the "persecution of Christians", which is a laughable idea in the United States. They apparently have no problem persecuting gays or women when it comes to their family planning choices. The fact that they're a self-styled arm of Christianity also taints their work with an air of proselytism.

Instead of being guilted into throwing a few dollars into their pots in front of stores, put that money aside and give it to a better, secular charity of your choosing. Religious charities spin some of their money towards things like training missionaries or building churches (Mother Teresa infamously devoted most of her charity money to building new parishes, not alleviating the suffering of the impoverished who provided her photo-ops). Your money works better in the hands of secular organizations free of outdated moral codes and a duty to spread the faith.

Edit: Yeah, I almost forgot. Fuck the Salvation Army. It's insidious that they're able to get such prime real estate for soliciting their brand of hateful Christianism. They're legitimized by their campaigns and stations in areas of commerce, and it's sick. Who the fuck needs religion when you have the 80s?

Edit 2: Thanks to Radical_Dreamer: http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,462684,00.html. They only allow their "officers" to marry other officers. Keeping the business in the family, eh?

[Zephira]

I always liked the bells and santas of the Salvation Army, but I never knew exactly what they were raising money for. They never say. It's just a fancy sounding name, and something that everyone does, so you should do it to. What would happen if other charities that had nothing to do with the Salvation Army put up little pots with bells and santas for donations? Would the SA be able to sue them?

[Radical_Dreamer]

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,462684,00.html

They also are against some straight marriages it seems.

[ZeaLitY]

I always liked the bells and santas of the Salvation Army, but I never knew exactly what they were raising money for. They never say. It's just a fancy sounding name, and something that everyone does, so you should do it to. What would happen if other charities that had nothing to do with the Salvation Army put up little pots with bells and santas for donations? Would the SA be able to sue them?

You'd have to have some kind of license, I think. Wal-mart is stringent about this. So if you set up shop and started raising money, the SA would probably complain to management, which would call the police or have private security haul you off.

[alfadorredux]

One should be vetting any charity to whom one gives very carefully. Some secular charities spend more than 50% of their money on "administration", which is only marginally less evil than spending it on ideological nastiness.

[Truthordeal]

Oh, for the love of Christ, God forbid a Christian group does anything in this country that warrants merit.

Zeality, if you can name one purely secular charity that does what the Salvation Army does on a similar scale...hell, there's no point in making a bet because it doesn't exist. Let the people operate how they want to and feed a family of four over the holiday. Give up a dollar and quit being so damn dogmatic.

[ZeaLitY]

That they're so pervasive is even more justification to boycott them.

God forbid a Christian group does anything in this country that warrants merit.

Yes, homophobia, sexism, and failed family planning policies warrant serious merit. 

[Zephira]

They're against abortion, think gays should be celibate in order to be in harmony with Christian scripture, deny marriage to gays, and promote abstinence. They also have a self-victimizing section condemning the "persecution of Christians", which is a laughable idea in the United States. They apparently have no problem persecuting gays or women when it comes to their family planning choices. The fact that they're a self-styled arm of Christianity also taints their work with an air of proselytism.

This is the big problem, Truth. If we're trying to get abortion and gay marriage approved, then donating here is pretty much backpedaling.

[Truthordeal]

They're against abortion, think gays should be celibate in order to be in harmony with Christian scripture, deny marriage to gays, and promote abstinence. They also have a self-victimizing section condemning the "persecution of Christians", which is a laughable idea in the United States. They apparently have no problem persecuting gays or women when it comes to their family planning choices. The fact that they're a self-styled arm of Christianity also taints their work with an air of proselytism.

This is the big problem, Truth. If we're trying to get abortion and gay marriage approved, then donating here is pretty much backpedaling.

I've never heard the Salvation Army weighing in on any legislation or social issue. I don't doubt that they do to some degree, but they don't have much clout. If you want to get at an organization with tons of political power, go after the AARP or the AMA; The Salvation Army has none and they don't use it. They actually put their money where their mouth is and use it to help the people they say they do.

That they're so pervasive is even more justification to boycott them.

God forbid a Christian group does anything in this country that warrants merit.

Yes, homophobia, sexism, and failed family planning policies warrant serious merit. 

As I said above, the Salvation Army hasn't been one to use its authority for political purposes. They help people, and yes, that does have merit.

[Lord J Esq]

Zeality, if you can name one purely secular charity that does what the Salvation Army does on a similar scale...hell, there's no point in making a bet because it doesn't exist.

Good thing you didn't make a bet.

http://www.goodwill.org/

Kinda big in Seattle, and also happens to do more business than the Salvation Army. It's not explicitly secular, and it was founded a century ago by a reverend, but it's not a religious charity either. They have no religious agenda and are essentially "non-religious."

But if you want an even better example--and I know you said that just one entity would be sufficient to destroy your worldview, but, hey, I like to be thorough--here's a little ditty that makes the Salvation Army seem kinda puny.

[Katie Skyye]

A lot of charities--most of them--need to be thoroughly looked into before you donate, especially since a lot of their money goes to funding fund raisers, paying permanent employees, renting space (buildings, etc) and planning galas and whatnot. You want to make sure your money is actually going to help someone in genuine need.

...and this goes for all charity, not just the SA. Gotta check them out before you give them your money.

[Truthordeal]

The Department of Health and Human Services is not a charity. In order for it to be a charity, donations have to be voluntary; needless to say, they are not when the "charity" is a government organization run on tax dollars.

As for Goodwill, well, it's primarily a means to afford people with cheap, used products, mostly clothes. It is a great endeavor, one that I frequent, being on a low budget, but it is not in the same class as the Salvation Army. Moreover, as you said, its not completely secular.

KatieSkyye and AlfadorRedux have brought up a fair point though: Look into what any charity is doing before donating. Several missionary groups have been caught starving children in third world countries in order to get more donation money. And of course, there's Bernie Madoff.

[Lord J Esq]

The Department of Health and Human Services is not a charity. In order for it to be a charity, donations have to be voluntary; needless to say, they are not when the "charity" is a government organization run on tax dollars.

As for Goodwill, well, it's primarily a means to afford people with cheap, used products, mostly clothes. It is a great endeavor, one that I frequent, being on a low budget, but it is not in the same class as the Salvation Army. Moreover, as you said, its not completely secular.

I think you're shifting your goalposts, as the saying goes. Goodwill is most definitely a charity. "Charity" is not limited to food and shelter. You should know better than to try and imply otherwise, since you can expect to always be called out on this board for even the slightest errors in your logic.

Goodwill is only not completely secular inasmuch as its origins are not secular. Today, it is run secularly. There is no religious aspect to it, or at least none that I was aware of.

Your insistence that charity must be voluntary is not unprecedented, but it is difficult to justify such a narrow requirement. Charity has, historically, been an obligatory activity--ethically if not legally. Many of the functions of the DHHS are conspicuously charitable in nature. Your subtler implication here is that government cannot provide charity, but in fact government is the key provider of charity. It's simply called by another term, "social services," because the benefactor is "society" itself.

[Samopoznanie]

At one point about 10 years ago, the Russian government actually started cracking down on all these sects and postwar religious movements.  Their most high-profile targets were Scientology and the Salvation Army.  Both of cases actually got taken to the ECHR (European Court of Human Rights), and the court sided with both the Scientologists and the Army after extended court battles.  Nowadays they're just quietly repressed. They block the Salvation Army by denying them visas, based on "the interests of state security." Some textbooks in Moscow even lump them in with terrorists due to the supposed 'hidden agendas'  of their 'pseudo-religious' posture.   

The Scientologists a bit more widespread though, so they've just been forcibly relocated to discreet locations, like back alleys with no signage. I still have a flyer for www.dianetics.ru that I got from a sidewalk recruiter as a souvenir. 

Zeality, maybe you could see if Putin & Co. are hiring...? 

[ZombieBucky]

i try to donate, not because i believe in their cause (now i honestly dont) but because if i walk past and dont give them money, i feel kind of bad. especially if i dig in my pockets to see if i have anything and i know they see me. like its my fault i dont have change.
according to my dad, god gave us love and compassion. i dont see why it should be seen differently depending on the person we feel it for. its okay for a man to love a woman and a woman to love a man. but suddenly when a man loves a man, thats not good. thats immoral! but god gave us love, right? why should it matter who its for?
i like how they basically say if you get raped and then find youre knocked up, theyll give you support. and if the baby is horribly misformed (like it has no skull or something) then theyll give you support.
its kind of funny how little they care for the general human condition.