Author Topic: The Education System  (Read 3561 times)

Lord J Esq

  • Moon Stone J
  • Hero of Time (+5000)
  • *
  • Posts: 5463
  • ^_^ "Ayla teach at college level!!"
    • View Profile
Re: The Education System
« Reply #15 on: December 10, 2009, 12:12:59 pm »
I see a lot of antipathy toward the school of thinking which emphasizes memorization and rote as an educational vehicle. Given that our decline in global literacy and numeracy rankings is due largely to our de-emphasis on memorization while other nations have continued to emphasize it, would anyone like to explain in greater detail why they are opposed to this system, and explain what they think a viable alternative would include?

I'm not necessarily taking a position myself. I'll do that much later with my characteristically large posts. For now, I'm just curious as to what others think.

Thought

  • Guru of Time Emeritus
  • God of War (+3000)
  • *
  • Posts: 3426
    • View Profile
Re: The Education System
« Reply #16 on: December 10, 2009, 01:07:21 pm »
First, I am also curious J: if we have de-emphasised memorization, what has (if anything) taken it's place, in your mind?

I have an answer to your question, but how I will present it depends on your answer to my question.

GenesisOne

  • Bounty Seeker
  • Dimension Crosser (+1000)
  • *
  • Posts: 1215
  • "Time Travel? Possible? Don't make me laugh!"
    • View Profile
Re: The Education System
« Reply #17 on: December 10, 2009, 01:34:36 pm »

Before any questions get answered, at least have a look at this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bx4pN-aiofw

I mostly likely have posted this URL somewhere before, but that was before this thread existed.  Now, it fits in.

It's a couple of years old, but it's still extremely relevant to the great education debate.

Lord J Esq

  • Moon Stone J
  • Hero of Time (+5000)
  • *
  • Posts: 5463
  • ^_^ "Ayla teach at college level!!"
    • View Profile
Re: The Education System
« Reply #18 on: December 10, 2009, 01:44:57 pm »
Oh, I'm not qualified to answer that right now, Thought. Besides, if you have a reply in mind already, I don't want to say anything that would influence it.

GenesisOne

  • Bounty Seeker
  • Dimension Crosser (+1000)
  • *
  • Posts: 1215
  • "Time Travel? Possible? Don't make me laugh!"
    • View Profile
Re: The Education System
« Reply #19 on: December 10, 2009, 02:28:16 pm »

I, for one, would like to see vouchers implemeneted in public schools.  Check this out:

http://www.lifesitenews.com/ldn/2009/mar/09030504.html

A bit dated to earlier this year, but still...

Empircal evidence FTW.

Thought

  • Guru of Time Emeritus
  • God of War (+3000)
  • *
  • Posts: 3426
    • View Profile
Re: The Education System
« Reply #20 on: December 10, 2009, 04:49:30 pm »
Out of curiosity, Genesis, did you read the report itself?

Oh, I'm not qualified to answer that right now, Thought.

Obviously, I should have asked a Professor of Joshonomy instead.

Lord J Esq

  • Moon Stone J
  • Hero of Time (+5000)
  • *
  • Posts: 5463
  • ^_^ "Ayla teach at college level!!"
    • View Profile
Re: The Education System
« Reply #21 on: December 10, 2009, 04:57:29 pm »
Does this mean we don't get to see your reply?

GenesisOne

  • Bounty Seeker
  • Dimension Crosser (+1000)
  • *
  • Posts: 1215
  • "Time Travel? Possible? Don't make me laugh!"
    • View Profile
Re: The Education System
« Reply #22 on: December 10, 2009, 06:55:35 pm »
Yes, Thought.  I read the report.

You know how monopolies are:

No competition = no incentive = no improvement = stagnation & persisting problems that never get fixed.

It also states that vouchers aren't the only reason public schools are suffering.  Strict policy-making being one of them.

Read it here (it's a most interesting read):

http://www.friedmanfoundation.org/downloadFile.do?id=357
« Last Edit: December 10, 2009, 06:57:47 pm by GenesisOne »

Truthordeal

  • Dimension Crosser (+1000)
  • *
  • Posts: 1133
  • Dunno what's supposed to go here. Oh now I see.
    • View Profile
    • Youtube Account
Re: The Education System
« Reply #23 on: December 10, 2009, 09:54:15 pm »
Public, private, I don't care who runs it. Teachers are teachers are teachers; there are good ones and there are bad ones but ultimately they attempt the same goal. I've wanted to teach since I was in fifth grade, so I've been keeping my eyes on how things work in the educational systems and which teachers and methods I liked best and wanted to apply.

One thing I've paid special attention to for dislike of it is the standardization process. I have no problem with national standardization itself; if kids in SC are learning things that kids in NY or CA are learning then great. In fact, the concept might help to combat intellectual disparages between the two coasts, and that's something I'm all for. What troubles me is the methods that the government usually takes to achieve this goal; standardized testing. The SAT and the ACT are less than great but necessary in my book, but some classes I've been in have revolved around what to study for a standardized test at the end of the course, rather than learning, and there's really nothing educational about that. If you want to learn some SAT-level vocabulary, then read Tycho Brahe's blog, but don't spend an entire semester trying to cram words into kids' heads. Its honestly not worth it, since most will forget it after the first vocabulary test you give them, if they retain it that long.

I had an especially rough run of this my last two years of high school when I was in Advanced Placement history classes. All that is taught is what is going to be on the AP exam, which is nationally standardized. Every quiz and every unit came with the familiar caveat of "Pay special attention to this part kids, because this is definitely going to be on the exam in May." It was basically strict memorization of dryly read facts, and while I'm not opposed to memorizing various facts and dates, in a supposedly college-level history course, there should be more! Ok, I get that Teddy Roosevelt did such and such, but why is that such and such relevant? Teddy Roosevelt is a singular character in American History, and yet so much emphasis is placed on the words "big stick" in reference to him and that's all you hear!

It wasn't the fault of my teachers either; they were both able and brilliant minds who could inspire even the most desolate minds into action. It was the regulations that bound them so close to standardization that they have virtually no control over their own curriculum. I could never be an AP teacher. It's too boring! There's no freedom! I suppose I would fit in best at the university level, but that's not financially feasible at the moment. Besides, someone with an actual mind for history has to teach secondary school kids their history instead of gym coaches who need to teach an easy class to stay coaches.

And let me delve into technology for a bit. Short answer, I don't need it. Long answer, I don't need it because if you give me a chalkboard and a set of textbooks, I can teach your kids about Caesar Augustus and Nebuchadnezzar. That's not to say that I don't think its all worthy. Powerpoint projectors can provide a vital visual aid that helps kids learn better. I don't, however, understand the need for Smart Schools, where every child has a laptop on their desk. It's too expensive and completely unnecessary.

Edit: I'll admit that I don't currently know of a way that we can make standardization practical without testing; but I will find one.
« Last Edit: December 10, 2009, 09:59:16 pm by Truthordeal »

Thought

  • Guru of Time Emeritus
  • God of War (+3000)
  • *
  • Posts: 3426
    • View Profile
Re: The Education System
« Reply #24 on: December 10, 2009, 10:04:58 pm »
Yes, Thought.  I read the report.

I was afraid of as much. I would urge you to read it again, then, and approach the article with a critical frame of mind. There are some notable flaws in it. Perhaps not so serious as to make you ("you" in the non-general sense) utterly discount it, but serious enough as to demand a significant degree of caution in approaching it. I do not have time now, but I will attempt to illustrate these problems tomorrow.

Does this mean we don't get to see your reply?

I'm trying out a Zen-like approach I learned from Ozy and Millie: posting by not posting. I guess if it doesn't work, I'll reply for real soon.

Lord J Esq

  • Moon Stone J
  • Hero of Time (+5000)
  • *
  • Posts: 5463
  • ^_^ "Ayla teach at college level!!"
    • View Profile
Re: The Education System
« Reply #25 on: December 10, 2009, 10:32:00 pm »
Ah, another Ozy & Millie reader. But of course, you must know immediately who my allegiances are with, and thus you can answer for yourself what I think of your answer-by-non-answer.

GenesisOne

  • Bounty Seeker
  • Dimension Crosser (+1000)
  • *
  • Posts: 1215
  • "Time Travel? Possible? Don't make me laugh!"
    • View Profile
Re: The Education System
« Reply #26 on: December 11, 2009, 05:14:54 pm »

Thought, I take it that you are one who is not in favor of vouchers for public schools.

I'd like to know your reasons while I re-read the report.

Thought

  • Guru of Time Emeritus
  • God of War (+3000)
  • *
  • Posts: 3426
    • View Profile
Re: The Education System
« Reply #27 on: December 11, 2009, 06:39:16 pm »
Actually, no, I haven't thought much about school vouchers and don't really have an opinion. I am generally conservative, so my ideology alone I should lean towards them (yeah, I'm a weird conservative, but still conservative). That report, however, was enough to make me want to be against them, as a knee-jerk reaction. Anywho, I am still writing up an analysis, but I might post the first half soon, since I have no idea when I'll be able to finish it up.

Crono666

  • Guardian (+100)
  • *
  • Posts: 124
  • Queen Zeal is best Waifu
    • View Profile
    • My deviantart
Re: The Education System
« Reply #28 on: December 11, 2009, 08:52:02 pm »
I think that the Education system in the United States sucks.
In my state, Massachusetts, there's a test called the MCAS. Now in order to get your diploma you have to pass this test. Now I passed the English part of the test, but not the math part. Because I failed to pass the Math part of the test, I never got my diploma. The reason why I failed the math part of the test is because no one ever taught me the stuff that I needed to know too pass the test.   

GenesisOne

  • Bounty Seeker
  • Dimension Crosser (+1000)
  • *
  • Posts: 1215
  • "Time Travel? Possible? Don't make me laugh!"
    • View Profile
Re: The Education System
« Reply #29 on: December 11, 2009, 09:12:35 pm »

I am so sorry to hear that, Crono666.

Get this.  For an SAT test, I took the Comprehension portion of the English test.  Guess what? I failed it.

Funny thing is, I'm an English major and very, very good at what I do (write and edit), yet according to this test, I suck at it.

Don't you just hate it when they don't teach the basics to you earlier in your life?