The Official King Zeal Discussion Thread

[BearFrog]

I looked around for a King Zeal thread and even did a search and the only one I found was a theoretical thread from 2006, so I'm going to make a seperate thread for THE MAN --- King Zeal.

King Zeal is what makes or breaks Crimson Echoes. He's the main villain, and he tends to be a show stealer in whatever scene he appears in and tends to overshadow the other characters with his strong personality. One could argue that he's a "Mary Sue" type character, but I reject the criticism of the "Mary Sue" character because, quite frankly, certain characters are meant to be totally awesome and steal the show (see Sherlock Holmes for further details). The one flaw in the writing of King Zeal is that his side of the story is given a more sympathetic view than that of the main protagonists; there are much better arguements to be made for preserving the timeline and fighting against Zeal but he ended up looking more heroic than the main cast (as did the Reptite time-travellers).

Motivation and personality wise, Zeal's a great villain and excellent character. The character also stands out as one of the few newly created sprites for the game. While there were other new characters, most of them used recycled sprites, and while it's clear the basis of his clothing was Queen Zeal's, he clearly looks to be a different character. Using "Undersea Palace" as his theme was an inspired move.

The masses will remember CE because it was a full-game of actual quality that got a C&D. The people who watched the video on youtube and played beta versions of the game will remember King Zeal.  Out of all the different aspects of the game, King Zeal is the most memorable.

[skylark]

I'm thinking that one of the reasons Alphard and the reptites were seen as somewhat more heroic is possibly to tie in to Chrono Cross. Humanity isn't this perfect species, they are incredibly flawed beings likened to a virus. Do they deserve salvation? Do they deserve destruction? Can they live side-by-side with the planet despite their origins or will they destroy themselves?

I'll admit some of Alphard's beliefs were a bit lost on me, but I can kinda understand his position.

I have my own theories on the man which will be seen in my fic (and its subsequent parody... though the parody might come first ).

Still, an awesome character regardless.

[FaustWolf]

What fascinates me most about KZ is the transition in his character arc between the short story Alphard and Demeria and Crimson Echoes.

Alphard and Demeria portrayed a KZ struggling defiantly with his own inner doubts and marital dilemma, his personal ambitions having been repressed by seemingly overwhelming external forces. Judging from CE, it would seem that he ultimately won the struggle, and then some!! KZ always held such great meaning for me because I was able to read about him in what seemed to have been an entirely different state of being, before Crimson Echoes. Judging from my own experience, writers do their best work when they insert a little (or maybe a lot) of themselves into their characters; I can only suspect that KZ's development as a character might have mirrored that of the writer in some way. But more importantly, I think KZ is a reflection of everyone who's gone from "bust" to "boom" attitude-wise at some point in their lives. That's what makes him such a remarkable and timeless character for me.

There's nothin' like a cup of nekketsu to kickstart one's day, let alone one's life.

[neo-fusion]

What I really like about King Zeal myself, is that he is a very very intelligent character.

I really wish crimson echoes was playable, it truely is a shame.

[ZeaLitY]

Thanks. I think it was after Agent 12 coded the Fall of Guardia in Chapter 15 that we realized, "holy god, Undersea Palace sounds so urgent." It made this great reflective feeling of the team's fear. Crono is a willful hero and Magus doesn't get too excited or fearful of his enemies either (considering he had to believe his abilities were enough to defeat Lavos, of all things)—but when King Zeal shows up, oh fuck. All bets are off. The team somewhat lacked the confidence to defeat him, and had to make up for it by despising him.

I think some of his strength also may have come from his voice in opposition of the theme. Crimson Echoes had a "consequences of time travel" thing going on, with Gaspar cautioning against frivolous time travel and the party's/King Zeal's actions having unintended effects. And yet, King Zeal's standing there saying, "We need to do more. We need to control time itself and elevate humanity just as we did with Zeal." It's so nice having a convincing voice for the opposition in the mix. The universe is a rough place, and nature is a cruel regent. Life only evolves on the edge of habitability, then enters a self-consuming fight for survival, living under the sword of Damocles from climate change, asteroid events, or other death knells. King Zeal sees consciousness and humanity as the great equalizer in this savagery, and the precious fire burning in a freezing universe that would smother it in a chanced moment.

I can't think FW enough for using the Devil's theme from An Cinniuint in the videos for King Zeal's speech in 82. Perfect.

[Schala Zeal]

While Father reacted in a negative way, I do see his point in wanting to thwart Crono and his friends. You have countless possibilities of who lives and who dies throughout time. While Crono seeks to restore the original timeline as well as change the future to something better, thus rejecting the trillions of lives from the reptite timeine and ruined future from ever existing, what Father did was no better because he would have cancelled out the lives Crono HAD saved.

[ZeaLitY]

Someone asked me to summarize King Zeal's demeanor, so:

King Zeal, back in the days of Zeal, was an ambitious but measured man. Like Zeal, his philosophy was rooted in humanism. He praised consciousness, sentience, emotions, and all realms of the human experience, and valued highly the pursuit of dreams. This made him a natural fit as King; the entire Kingdom of Zeal was possessed by a great spirit to learn and discover.

Post-death, King Zeal's philosophy has been considerably embittered by the discovery that Zeal fell because of Lavos, and that humanity never produced such a beautiful civilization thereafter. In Zeal, there was Kajar and Enhasa; Kajar hosted those who wished to discover and build in reality, and Enhasa hosted those who preferred to dream and explore those ethereal realms. But in the modern world, King Zeal found people to be dominated by pettiness and consumerist cares, with dreams of more grand material possessions or simple procreation. And worst of all, the highest ambition of Zeal had been demonized in legend as overdoing it.

King Zeal consequently viewed most of the rest of humanity not part of Zeal as inferior. They possessed inferior minds, inferior curiosities, inferior passions, and inferior dreams. This ethically rationalized manipulation of these people and his own arbitration of the timeline to revive the Dream of Zeal, which was in contrast to the modern world's mediocrity. On a personal level, he remained a consummate human, with voracious curiosities in new experiences and a desire to taste all the spice of life that the universe could offer. But post-death, he held a lot of anger towards the world for its mediocrity; for the fall of Zeal; for the wasting of humanity's potential.

[Crono666]

Queen Zeal's my favorite Chrono character. And one of the biggest questions in the Chrono series has always been who is King Zeal?

I see King Zeal as a powerful leader who his people looked up to. And I think that when he died there was a lot of pressure on Queen Zeal to be as good of a ruler as he was. I think that she was probably forced into having to be a leader, before she was mentality, and emotionally ready. She probably never got anytime to herself to grive for the death of her husband.

It really would have been nice to see a scene of King and Queen Zeal together in Crimson Echoes.

[Schala Zeal]

It is still possible to access these surreal realms via a nexus of ley energies. Enhasa tapped into the leylines of one of these nexi that was located around Mt. Woe at the time. Though, the nexi are dynamic, and likely the network Enhasa used went dormant within a millenium after the Kingdom's fall. Of course, this was all in my AP sorcery studies class back in my junior year at Kajar. It was material the mastery exams covered.

[Mr Bekkler]

Queen Zeal's my favorite Chrono character. And one of the biggest questions in the Chrono series has always been who is King Zeal?

I see King Zeal as a powerful leader who his people looked up to. And I think that when he died there was a lot of pressure on Queen Zeal to be as good of a ruler as he was. I think that she was probably forced into having to be a leader, before she was mentality, and emotionally ready. She probably never got anytime to herself to grive for the death of her husband.

It really would have been nice to see a scene of King and Queen Zeal together in Crimson Echoes.

It would have been nice, but I think they actually replaced Queen Zeal's sprite with his, so it wouldn't have been possible, but maybe in Chrono Echoes, we'll see something like that?

[Lance VII]

In Chrono Echoes, it's quite possible. There's a scene I have in mind when Magus is reflecting upon his life, and in his memories, he sees his Mother and Father as good people before the corruption of Lavos.

[ShoeMagus]

King Zeal's philosophy is both his greatest strength and greatest weakness. Its great because it makes him a really compelling character. His motives are grand, comparable to that of the heroes of the Chrono series, and he has an eloquent way of conveying his ideas.

The ambivalent part comes when the heroes seek to defeat him. On one hand they are trying to limit his temporal adventurism, which supports Gaspar's point about manipulation of time. On the other hand, they are operating under the same essential motive that KZ is, trying to keep and defend that which they love. In many ways, the Kingdoms of Zeal and Guardia are both idealistic places that are lost to catastrophes. You see the idealization of Guardia in Chrono Cross by the Acacia Dragoons.

So KZ's philosophy is superior in that his enemies are playing right into it, taking it up through the very act of trying to destroy him. However, it also leads to his own destruction as they try to fulfill their own dream.

[Thought]

Post-death, King Zeal's philosophy has been considerably embittered by the discovery that Zeal fell because of Lavos, and that humanity never produced such a beautiful civilization thereafter.

That is what, at least for me, made KZ such a great villain. After all, it isn't so much that humanity never produced such a beautiful civilization again (1998 human civ, for example, seemed to be approaching a Zeal level of technological advancement, while even 1000 AD Guardia was socially better than Zeal in some ways). It is that he didn't value those later civilizations; to him, that they weren't "beautiful" and that they weren't "Zeal" were synonymous. He is thus admirable for his intent but despicable for his conception. That which strives to be greatest also has the potential for being the worst.

[desrever2]

Schala and Janus are step-siblings, which means either the King, the Queen, or both had at least one relationship with someone else, prior eachother. Janus is of royal blood, but it's unclear to whether Zeal is the Queen's maiden name or not, or even if Janus is son to both the Queen and late King. Just my two cents.

[Acacia Sgt]

They're not. That was a mistranslation.