Is this an unwinnable situation in Chrono Cross?

[Rocky]

Someone at the GameFAQs forum has presented a problem that he has encountered in trying to progress further in Chrono Cross.

Earlier in the game, he didn't go to Water Dragon Isle to get the Ice Breath to use in Mt. Pyre.  He got through Mt. Pyre and progressed.  He never visited Water Dragon Isle thereafter (at any point that the dragon would still give him the Ice Breath), until much later in the game when he had to visit in order to get the Blue Relic (under the story caption "To the Sea of Eden").  Well, at this point, the Blue Relic dialogue has been triggered, and the dragon no longer gives the Ice Breath.  So he went to Mt. Pyre to get the Red Relic.  But the new path that opened up inside is apparently slightly higher in elevation, and requires you to freeze the magma at least in this room to reach the new path.  So he needs the Ice Breath to advance, but can no longer get it.  (And the Ice Gun can't be attained until later.)

This is the situation as he described it.  Is there a way to advance?  He seems really disheartened, thinking that he needs to start the whole game over (I assume he has no other save states early enough to help).  I've done countless searches, but can't seem to find anyone else that ran into this.  It sounds like it could only happen if you never talk to the Water Dragon until this late in the game.

Does anyone know if there's a way around this?  Or is this actually a rare unwinnable situation?

[FaustWolf]

I'd say use a GameShark code to put the necessary key item in his inventory. If he's emulating, I bet some tinkering with his savestate could be done with a hex editor. If he's on physical hardware and doesn't have GameShark or a DexDrive, sounds pretty bad.

[Acacia Sgt]

Hm... Wasn't the usage of the Ice Breath in the area to reach a chest? It would seem wierd to allow you to cross Mt. Pyre without the Ice Breath, only to make it mandatory later but unable to obtain it...

[Rocky]

FaustWolf - Yeah.  I'm just surprised that no one else has stumbled into this situation.  At least not that I can find on the internet so far (hard to know exactly how to search for it).  I'm really hoping there's an in-game solution, but it sounds like there isn't.  If this particular situation is unwinnable, it should really be highlighted somehow so that more people don't happen upon it and get discouraged from playing through the game again.  I don't know if this person is playing on an emulator or using the game disc.  I personally use the game disc on the PS 1 or PS 3, and I'm not very knowledgeable when it comes to emulator manipulation...

Acacia Sgt - Early in the game, yes, there's just a treasure chest there (MagmaBomb I think), and a caved in entryway.  (It's the screen with two magma waterfalls.)  So using the Ice Breath in that screen only gets you the chest, first time through.  But when you go for the relic much later in the game, the entryway is no longer caved in, and you HAVE to go that way to reach the Fire Dragon.  And apparently you're not at the correct elevation level until you freeze the magma in that screen.  But once you start the quest for the relics, the Water Dragon's dialogue is changed, and he no longer offers the Ice Breath if you never got it earlier.  Again, that's how the person who ran into this problem described it.  I'm tempted to start a quest and copy his actions, just to see it for myself - but it's just so far into the game...

So yeah, the situation seems weird, but it really just falls into the category of "Unwinnable by Mistake," as described on tvtropes.org.  It happens in games many times - I'm just surprised that I've never heard about this one till now.  I guess it's just really unlikely to never talk to the Water Dragon until this point, even if just out of curiosity.  But it's a very possible scenario, so I'd think more people would've accidentally stumbled upon it.

[Yourgingerestfan]

It is possible to pass , most lava places are easy to walk over , your character just moves alot slower like in the viper manor well , the ice breath freezes chests and its only real use is to stop character's hp ticking away.

[Acacia Sgt]

Indeed. It can't be that it's impossible to climb if not frozen. Otherwise, it would have been talked about it before, specially in here. It's not like no one has never not gotten the Ice Breath before.

[utunnels]

Well, can we get a save file of his progress?
I really can't recall there's a place that you must freeze the magma to advance. But there IS a place you can't climb up AFTER you freeze the magma.
 

[ZealKnight]

There is a way. I did it my first play through. however I used a faq on gamefaqs to get it. So I don't remember. I think the Ice Gun works actually. That or just go back to the ice dragon after getting the relic. It MAY be that he is in the other world to get the breath. But I remember doing it.

[rushingwind]

My very first time through Chrono Cross, I didn't complete Water Dragon Isle to get the Ice Breath (In truth, my game is heavily scratched, and would glitch up during the camp scene with Serge and Kid just before you leave. So I couldn't get it at all.) I progressed through the rest of the game just fine, and though Mt. Pyre was annoying, I had no trouble completing the game.

I played CC on a Playstation, however, so I'm not sure if it would be any different than emulating...

[Rocky]

utunnels - I just posted on GameFAQs, asking him if he could upload his save file.  I'll let you know what he says.

Everyone - first off, thanks for the replies.  I'm just trying to help this person figure this out, so I appreciate any and all help.  I have attached a picture of the exact spot that the person can't reach - it's at the bottom of this post (at least, I think this is what he was describing).  This particular spot is in the room that you reach by entering Mt. Pyre, then going up one screen and then right one screen (then down the first lava waterfall within that screen).  What he's saying is that he can't walk from the magma to the solid ground where the cave opening now is (and where the Magma Bomb treasure chest is), because - according to him - the solid ground is slightly elevated.  So you're lower when walking through the magma, but once you freeze it, you're standing on TOP of the magma, and the new elevation matches that of the sold ground.  (No slope involved - just going from one flat ground to another flat ground of a different elevation.)  Again, this is just the situation as he described it.  So...

ZealKnight or rushingwind - Do either of you still have a completed game save state in which the magma is unfrozen?  If so, can you go to this room and confirm that you CAN in fact walk into the cave opening from the unfrozen magma?  If you can do so, then I must not be understanding his particular problem correctly - but I THINK I am.  Are either of you able to verify my question?  Oh, and ZealKnight, you don't get the Ice Gun until later in the game, after you've already gone through this path en route to getting all the relics, so that isn't a viable option here.

Thanks again for any and all help.  

[rushingwind]

ZealKnight or rushingwind - Do either of you still have a completed game save state in which the magma is unfrozen?  If so, can you go to this room and confirm that you CAN in fact walk into the cave opening from the unfrozen magma?  If you can do so, then I must not be understanding his particular problem correctly - but I THINK I am.  Are either of you able to verify my question?  Oh, and ZealKnight, you don't get the Ice Gun until later in the game, after you've already gone through this path en route to getting all the relics, so that isn't a viable option here.

Thanks again for any and all help. 

Hah, you gave me an excuse to dig out Chrono Cross! I haven't played it in over a year!

Indeed I did have a near-complete savegame (right at the very end, just before fighting the Time Devourer), and I checked Mt. Pyre, both Home and Another World. Without any frozen magma, I had no trouble getting onto the ledge you specified. I tried several times in different places, and even tried multiple ledges just to make sure. It worked just fine. Like someone else here said, there is one ledge you can't climb after you freeze the magma, but it's not necessary to continue with the game (you just get a Red Brooch, or something like that).

It may be a glitch in his game (though mine is so heavily scratched I'm amazed it works at all). Or maybe he is using an emulator, and somehow it works differently. Either way, at least on the console, not freezing the magma does not make it so you can't pass later.

[Rocky]

Huh, so without it frozen you can still get into that cave opening in the picture I attached, that leads to where the Salamander is stuck in the ground....  Thank you so much for going to the trouble of checking it out thoroughly.  Well, I feel bad for the guy who's stuck.  I have no idea why he can't walk to that opening.  Weird.  Oh well.  Thanks again for verifying this.

[Rocky]

Well, good news.  The guy finally got unstuck.  He said he was just in the wrong part of the room.  I don't know where for sure.  Maybe he was up at the top of the room, and saw the exit cave to the northeast (hence his reference to the difference in elevation), and didn't realize he had to go to the bottom of the room first to reach it.  Sounds like he hadn't been nearly as thorough in looking as I'd thought he'd been.  Anyway, thanks again for all the help in checking this out for him.  Turns out it was a non-issue after all.