Chrono Tarot cards project. Any ideas?

[TheMage]

I kinda like the scarf

[tushantin]

Sorry for my absence, mates. I'm actually waiting for Angerona. XD

Anywhos, for those of you who need inspiration, here's some art:

[Angerona]

Sorry for my absence, mates. I'm actually waiting for Angerona. XD

I'm terribly sorry for the absence, Tushantin. I spent a couple days trying to make an alternate coloring of your Janus lineart. To make a longstory short, I ended up feeding my artistic blockage and now I can't seem to be able to draw a single line. Until the last day of the year I will get into reclusion until I manage to finish a secret santa piece I promised (and ideally the Kiriban I have been owing for over a year) and I will be back with some sketches during the first days of the next year (Fortunately I got a couple weeks of vacations after that so I should be able to come up with something valuable, hopefully). I will make sure to login during the following days and comment. Right now I'm heading to the Janus card post.

[TheMage]

How is this going?

[tushantin]

How is this going?

We're on hiatus for a bit -- I have my exams, and Angerona's got some of her stuff to do. Although, since we're a community project, anyone can join in and make a card!

I'll probably be back after October, though. Although, I've reserved November for Nanowrimo.

[xcalibur]

How is this going?

We're on hiatus for a bit -- I have my exams, and Angerona's got some of her stuff to do. Although, since we're a community project, anyone can join in and make a card!

I'll probably be back after October, though. Although, I've reserved November for Nanowrimo.

I made a post or two drawing attention to this project, but I don't want to spam. the main thing is to get artists on board who are willing to provide the content. the majority of the cards are set in stone at this point, so anyone could jump in and provide illustrations. For those who want to be a Tarot Doctor, there are still selection issues for a handful of the cards, as seen in the discussion thread.

I'm always willing to contribute, but I can't do this alone. whenever activity picks up, I'll be around.

[tushantin]

In that case, we'll simply need to find artists to collaborate. I have exams till October, and November I'll be focusing on NaNoWriMo. However, I have recently converted a friend to play Chrono games (LMAO) and asked if she wants to help. XD Let's see what she says. I do say, though, she's an excellent artist.

In either case, I'll still be around whenever I get net access if anyone needs. Just hit me a mail, or post anything here (I'll receive a notification).

xcalibur, feel free to make rough sketch ideas for the cards! The artists can then adapt the art into a full-fledged card eventually. I'm personally not satisfied with the way Janus card came about, so I "might" redo.

[xcalibur]

xcalibur, feel free to make rough sketch ideas for the cards! The artists can then adapt the art into a full-fledged card eventually. I'm personally not satisfied with the way Janus card came about, so I "might" redo.

I might take this up! I have an artistic sense, but not the technical skills to deliver. I can doodle and sketch though, so I'll see about creating rough drafts that suggest how I'd like the card to turn out.

[xcalibur]

MAJOR ARCANA

Fool - Chrono/the Player
Magician - Norstein Bekkler OR Belthasar
High Priestess - Schala
Empress - Queen Leene
Emperor - King Guardia OR Azala
Hierophant - Mother Brain OR Belthasar
Lovers - Crono & Marle
Chariot - Epoch
Strength - Ayla (closing a sabertooth tigers mouth)
Hermit - Belthasar OR Gaspar
Wheel of Fortune - Time Gate
Justice - Frog w/ Masamune and Hero's Medal
Hanged Man - Gaspar AND/OR Robo
Death - Lavos
Temperance - Melchior
Devil - Magus
Tower - Mammon Machine                                 
Star - Marle w/ Pendant                                       
Moon - Dreamstone (w/ Queen Zeal?)
Sun - Lucca w/ Sun Stone                                   
Judgement - The Chrono Trigger
World - Nu/Entity

where there are two different possibilities, I put OR in bold. where OR is bold, underlined, and italicized, it relates to the whole Guru issue (I'll address that next). I attempted to draw an arrow between Death and Judgement, since a choice on one sets the choice for the other.

The Guru issue is the conflict between fitting the 3 Gurus and the 7 party members. Almost everything fits, but then we have to place Robo. It seems that Hanged Man is most applicable, but Gaspar is there. We could set Robo there, bump Gaspar to Hermit (since that also kinda fits), then move Belthasar in turn to Hierophant, Magician, or elsewhere.
An unorthodox alternative to this would be to split the Hanged Man card between Gaspar/Robo. Or make it Belthasar/Robo - this might be easier to pull off, at a moderate cost to proper choice.

also, we had some issues with Azala. her role doesn't seem to fit the nurturing Empress too well. But a female Emperor would also be an ill fit. She may have to be assigned to the court, although the King and Queen of Guardia aren't totally ideal for Empress and Emperor.


ACE CARDS

Ace of Swords - Ruby Knife
Ace of Wands - Gate Key
Ace of Cups - Zeal Sapling/Future Seed
Ace of Pentacles - Rainbow Shell

no issues here, everything fits.


COURT CARDS

King of Swords- Masa & Mune 
Queen of Swords-
Knight of Swords- Slash
Page of Swords- Dalton

King of Wands- Spekkio
Queen of Wands-
Knight of Wands- a winking Flea
Page of Wands- Jetbike Johnny

King of Pentacles- Ozzie
Queen of Pentacles- Crono's Mom
Knight of Pentacles- Yakra
Page of Pentacles- Gato

King of Cups- Cyrus
Queen of Cups- Fiona
Knight of Cups- Kino
Page of Cups- Janus

This is still open to interpretation, but this is as far as I was able to take it. possible queens I know of are Queen Zeal, Azala, and Cronos Mom. also Queen Leene and Mother Brain, if they're not Trumps.


time periods - I favor adequate representation of the major eras of the game in the selections. naturally there are limitations, such as the uneven distribution of important personalities throughout time. the Major Arcana have a lot of the present, since 3 of the main characters are from there. The Court Cards are dominated by 600 ad. but as long as no one is neglected, it should be fine.

good/evil - I also want to have a balanced mix between good and bad. This isn't too much of a problem in the Trumps, except that it leads me to favor Dreamstone over Black Omen for Moon. frequently maligned tarot cards should have something less negative. However, I may have to sacrifice that in the case of Death - Lavos.
This is more of an issue in the court cards. I'm aiming for balance in the 4 court cards for each suit. Naturally, Cups is going to lean towards positive, but assigning Janus as the page helps balance that. Gato also helps balance Pentacles, and if the Queen is positive then that will be fine. Even if 3 of the swords are negative, Masa&Mune as king can balance that imo.

checking back a few years later, this is where I stand:


MAJOR ARCANA

Fool - Chrono (the Player?)
Magician - Norstein Bekkler (Chrono instead?)
High Priestess - Schala (flanked by beast/girl zeal statues instead of pillars)
Empress - Queen Leene
Emperor - Azala
Hierophant - Gaspar (in red Zeal robes, with chrono/marle/lucca/robo instead of acolytes)
Lovers - Crono & Marle (under Leene's Bell)
Chariot - Epoch (white and black exhaust streams)
Strength - Ayla (closing a sabertooth tigers mouth) (or riding one, holding a stone lemniscate)
Hermit - Belthasar
Wheel of Fortune - Time Gate (w/ kilwala, bullfrog, poyozo doll, cat, nu, doreen/dream species)
Justice - Frog w/ Masamune and Hero's Medal
Hanged Man - Robo
Death - Lavos (crashing into tyrano lair or destroying zeal, but not 1999)
Temperance - Melchior (repairing the masamune w/ dreamstone)
Devil - Magus (Ogre and Naga-ette in chains)
Tower - Mammon Machine (w/ Ruby Knife in it, and lightning as seen ingame)
Star - Marle w/ Pendant
Moon - Dreamstone (w/ Queen Zeal's reflection)
Sun - Lucca w/ Sun Stone (+Wondershot?)
Judgement - The Chrono Trigger (on the summit of Death Peak)
World - Nu/Entity (with guardian soldier, reptite, mystic (imp), enlightened one)


ACE CARDS

Ace of Swords - Ruby Knife
Ace of Wands - Gate Key
Ace of Cups - Zeal Sapling
Ace of Pentacles - Rainbow Shell


COURT CARDS

King of Swords- Masa & Mune 
Queen of Swords- Mother Brain
Knight of Swords- Slash
Page of Swords- Dalton

King of Wands- Spekkio
Queen of Wands- Queen Zeal
Knight of Wands- a winking Flea
Page of Wands- Jetbike Johnny

King of Pentacles- Ozzie
Queen of Pentacles- Crono's Mom
Knight of Pentacles- Yakra (and/or Chancellor?)
Page of Pentacles- Gato

King of Cups- Cyrus
Queen of Cups- Fiona
Knight of Cups- Toma (or Kino or Doan)
Page of Cups- Janus


I put a fair amount of thought into this, and I think this should settle the chrono tarot, unless anyone would like to take up the debate again.

this project has been inactive for awhile, but anyone can take up the chrono tarot deck idea. if so, I'd like my thought to be put to use.

[tushantin]

Actually, I like em! Considering most of the other artists may have gotten on with their lives elsewhere, I'll probably re-take this project once I finish my current commercial and fan ones. It should help re-vamp my digital arts portfolio, giving me some variety.

That said, considering I'm pretty ignorant when it comes to Tarot, you'll need to provide me some basic symbolism on each card, what it should look like, what it should FEEL like, etc. Based on that, I can make prototypes.

Also, would you like to make this a commercial project with sales? To do that, though, we'll need to proceed this as a Chrono card project, but will need to remove Chrono references in the final stages, making them a completely original deck (kinda like writing a fanfiction of Twilight, then renaming it "Fifty Shades of Grey").

P.S.: Considering I've been learning magic recently, I've also been wondering if I could use the same designs to make another deck of cards specifically for Cardistry. LOL

[xcalibur]

yea, people get busy with stuff, such is life.

I'd be more than willing to advise you or anyone else who chooses to take this up. chrono trigger and tarot are two things I definitely know (along with a number of other topics). The Rider-Waite tarot deck is one of the most popular, and its illustrations should definitely give you a good sense of each card. As for meanings, Syna's link http://www.aeclectic.net/tarot/learn/meanings/ explains them in a succinct and effective way.

of course, there's also the question of how much a chrono deck would deviate from the traditional designs. in some cases, you'd have to design the card in a different way. for example, for Death, you couldn't really have lavos riding a horse in armor. it would make more sense to completely change it to Zeal getting destroyed. you could try to stay closer to the original with Lavos Core stepping over fallen Zealians, but that might look odd.

I haven't thought about sales. I'm sure many people would want this as a collector's item. but if squeenix makes legal threats over a not-for-profit fan work, I'm sure they'd jump all over anyone selling chrono-themed merchandise. lol @ twilight/50 shades of grey. problem is, how much would have to be changed? Could it still be recognizably a Chrono-themed tarot while side-stepping legal issues?

I'm confident in my choices. I pored over this stuff, and I can provide an argument for each one. Linking chrono trigger with tarot (making the characters match with tarot meanings) was a pretty large task, but I think myself and Syna have accomplished that. Most of the things I'm still unsure of are details of how the cards should be, like which characters appear in the corners, or whether the knight of pentacles should be the yakra monster, the chancellor, or incorporate both identities.

there are only two more open questions at this point imo: the fool/magician, and the knight of cups.

as Syna suggested, the fool could be the player (with a controller pictured) and Chrono be the magician. my issue with this is that Chrono is like a stand-in or avatar for the player, so placing him as the fool has almost the same meaning. then, Norstein Bekkler can stay on as the magician.

knight of cups: this could be either Toma or Kino. Toma is a cool dude who roams the world drinking beer and giving useful advice. there are no negatives there.
Kino is known mainly for using poor judgment in swiping the gate key, which makes me want to demote him to page (but I'm not going to bump Janus from that spot). on the other hand, he's not all bad, he represents prehistory, and he could be riding a dactyl on his card which would be pretty cool.
Toma is my first choice but it could go either way.
eta: Doan could fit there too.

[tushantin]

Shit, I don't understand why I no longer get notifications from the forums for responses and shit. I'll try enabling notifications again just in case, but if not I'll just bookmark this page so I can get back to it every time I get. Shoot me in the head for responding two whole years late. :/

I don't want anyone's hard work here to go in vain (and those two years have given me plenty of time to improve as an illustrator). Even if, say, we can't sell these cards despite allowing it to be available for free of cost, we need to figure out a business model that can compensate for the time and effort put in — not just mine, but everyone who's been greatly involved here.

Currently I was speaking with a friend who is a marketer who mentioned that art, in itself, can be a great marketing tool to sell other products that aren't associated with that art specifically. Perhaps fan-works can also work in a similar way?

So the question is, what are we willing to offer to the people who also want the Rider-Waite Major Arcana cards?

[xcalibur]

not a problem.

I could see a Chrono Tarot Deck being included in a grab bag of merchandise, e.g. those subscription boxes where you sign up and they periodically send you a bunch of assorted cool stuff. That would definitely work for Chrono Tarot.

As I said earlier, I think the card selections and concepts are ideal or close to it. This project can come back to life at any time if there are artists willing to illustrate. My main concern is that my (and Syna's) ideas should be put to use and not disregarded.

Perhaps Fangamer could take over manufacturing/distribution.

[tushantin]

Finally received your notification! I'm so happy. 

Yeah, that's actually a good idea. I had forgotten that fangamer existed. But before we can contact them, we might need to create a portfolio of the Major Arcana to see if they are willing to manufacture it. If that become successful, we could make a collectible series in different packages — such as Court cards and such.

I'll also try to utilize the illustrations I make for each of the cards to drive traffic to my Facebook page (to attract more clients). IF we get more traffic, we could upsell something else along with it, something original. XD I just have no idea what that would be.

Anywho, I've been hard at work trying to refine my artistic skills constantly. Once my current animation projects are finished (which should hopefully be done by mid-August), I'll take this one once again. Once I start, I can hopefully estimate it all to finish by Christmas.

P.S.: Thanks for all the work you, Syna and others have done so far! I'm sorry for not being so active, and will make sure they don't go in vain.

[xcalibur]

We should definitely have a complete portfolio of the Major Arcana before we reach out.

With the current popularity of retro gaming, there's definitely a niche for this sort of merchandise. It's just a matter of figuring out the business aspect.

and no prob. As much as I enjoyed speculating in Enhasa, I always wanted to get involved in Kajar and do something productive. The Tarot project gave me the opportunity to do so.