Chrono Trigger Original Characters : Your Thoughts

[Lady Marle]

Since waaaaaaay back when Chrono Trigger was first released, there have been multitudes of fanfiction and fanart created for our beloved series. As with any other beloved game (and the fact Square Enix has not satisfied us with a continuation of the series with heavy involvement of the original cast... not to say I don't like CC but you get me), many fans have made their own continuations of it.

My question is what are people's thoughts on OCs developed. Like them? Hate them? Have a favourite? Avoid them like the plague?

[Mr Bekkler]

I'm not sure I understand the question. Do you mean original characters, like something you made up that is new and original, or original characters, like the characters in the first (and therefor original) game?

I love both, assuming the new ones fans make have some dimension to them, with realistic motivation and reaction, and growth over the course of the story, they can be fantastic additions. Look at Joss Whedon's script for Alien Resurrection. Ripley died at the end of Alien 3. Did that stop him from creating his own version for the next movie? Nope! And what happened with her? She started almost autistic, then super strong, badass, complicated, and even matronly.

Until that movie was made, that was just Joss Whedon's fan fic script. This kind of thing happens with movie franchises all the time. It's REALLY rare in the video game world (official releases anyway).

[Sajainta]

I don't read a lot of fanfiction, but for the most part I don't mind OCs, as long as they're well-developed, realistic, and aren't the ever-annoying Mary-Sues, or just a blatant copy of another character.  Or a self-insert.  Ugh.  Those three are the worst.  -___-

[Katie Skyye]

Considering that I have one, I can't really have a problem with them. Also considering that mine is an alternate-universe incarnation of Kid, I don't think I have the right to be picky on sueishness, either...

[Lennis]

I approach the subject of original characters very cautiously.  When they don't fill in a needed gap or role in the original games, they run the risk of feeling gratuitous (which was an issue with Chrono Cross).  More seriously, they run the risk of overshadowing the canon characters, and developing them should be the priority for any fan of Chrono.  We have to show Square/Enix that there is enough love for these characters to bring them back in a possible sequel or remake, otherwise they'll just create a whole new cast of characters with little to no relation to the previous game(s). (Another issue with Chrono Cross.)

Sometimes, original characters can be a great asset.  In the context of the original games, adding one in the right place can cause you to look at the story in a whole new light.  Think Cedric Guardia.  It can also create new situations for the canon characters and give them even more character development.  That is key.  When I stick a new character into my novel, it is always with the intention of creating interaction or a situation that the main characters have to deal with.  They don't steal the spotlight.  I don't put them there just to say "Look, I created a new character for Chrono Trigger".

[Kodokami]

<-- This guy is badass. And while in CE he did tend to overshadow the original cast, he kinda was the will behind it all. That impression is a given. However, his involvement also forced character development on Crono & co. in new ways.

[Sajainta]

But King Zeal isn't really a traditional original character.  He was already in the Chronoverse.  The CE developers / writers just completely fleshed out an already existent character.  I think Lady Marle is asking about 100% OCs--like children or siblings or neighbours of characters.  People like Wells--Bekkler's amazing character from the Temporal Odyssey--who is Norstein's brother.

[Kodokami]

Good point. King Zeal wasn't truly an OC. But as he was mentioned only once in all of canon (as the late ruler of Zeal who passed away), did he have any structure to him at all? Everything about him in CE, except his origin as King, is completely original.

In any case, I support the use of original characters in fan materials. As Lennis said, they allow you to experience the game / characters in a whole new light.

[skylark]

I don't read a lot of fanfiction, but for the most part I don't mind OCs, as long as they're well-developed, realistic, and aren't the ever-annoying Mary-Sues, or just a blatant copy of another character.  Or a self-insert.  Ugh.  Those three are the worst.  -___-

 

I didn't think my character in my Sea of Dreams spoof was that blatant of the last one...

But you have to wonder, isn't any character in a work of fiction a self insert of the creator(s) or character designers in some way? I agree, it's good if it's done well. I'm just not that good a writer apparently.

It just sucks when you have so many ideas but you can't really put them on paper in a way that people would normally enjoy. That's one of the reasons I make any work I have a parody.

I know you weren't talking about me per-say. Just hit a little too close to home, that's all. Sorry.

[Mr Bekkler]

I'm not familiar with your work, skylark, but I wanted to comment on a few things you're saying here.

No, not all fictional characters are self inserts, but yes, a good writer should use their own experiences and (more importantly) observations to breathe life into said characters.

It's not that hard to create a believable character who is not just what YOU would do in a story, nor just the Mary-Sue "Have no fear! I AM HERE! ...WITH MY DEUS EX MACHINA POWERS!".
The character Sajainta mentioned, Wellsville, is goofy, charming, annoying, depressed, bad at what he does, and most of the time very wrong in his assumptions and conclusions. He gets stuck in his own head a lot and has issues he refuses to address and problems controlling himself. Most of the things he does right are by accident. He's not a self-insert, but writing him comes naturally because to me he's almost alive. I'm really proud OF him.

If you have a clear picture in your head about where they came from and what they've been through, make sure your characters have real thoughts and real problems, and you're not afraid to show it on their face rather than have them say it out loud, you can't fail!

Copies of other characters are tricky, because if you do it right, nobody will know it's a copy. If you do it wrong, you're borderline copyright infringement.

Is your work in the Fan Fic section on the Compendium? Or is there some elsewhere I might find? I'd like to take a look-see.

[Trebuchet]

I'd say is a self-insert of ZeaLity.

[skylark]

I'm not familiar with your work, skylark, but I wanted to comment on a few things you're saying here.

No, not all fictional characters are self inserts, but yes, a good writer should use their own experiences and (more importantly) observations to breathe life into said characters.

It's not that hard to create a believable character who is not just what YOU would do in a story, nor just the Mary-Sue "Have no fear! I AM HERE! ...WITH MY DEUS EX MACHINA POWERS!".
The character Sajainta mentioned, Wellsville, is goofy, charming, annoying, depressed, bad at what he does, and most of the time very wrong in his assumptions and conclusions. He gets stuck in his own head a lot and has issues he refuses to address and problems controlling himself. Most of the things he does right are by accident. He's not a self-insert, but writing him comes naturally because to me he's almost alive. I'm really proud OF him.

If you have a clear picture in your head about where they came from and what they've been through, make sure your characters have real thoughts and real problems, and you're not afraid to show it on their face rather than have them say it out loud, you can't fail!

Copies of other characters are tricky, because if you do it right, nobody will know it's a copy. If you do it wrong, you're borderline copyright infringement.

Is your work in the Fan Fic section on the Compendium? Or is there some elsewhere I might find? I'd like to take a look-see.

My parody is on the first page of the fanfiction section actually. My stuff's usually kinda hit or miss, though.

[Clovis15]

I wonder where Chrono Trigger Unglued falls along a continuum like this. And please, don't anyone say it's not judgable because it's a parody and that's outside the terms of this discussion. Half the reason so many parodies are loathed by all intelligent people out the starting gate is precisely because they think being a parody means not having to have real writing theory applied to what you are doing. I don't speak personally for Cryo's time as the head of CTU, but I know that I personally have held as one of my highest priorities that CTU be viewable as a coherent and logical story by itself and not just be reliant upon people having played the original game to understand it. I was a massive fan of Secret of Mana Theater before - and after - taking over CTU, something that had a massive impact on how I thought the show must go (theory wise, I never aimed to steal plot or joke ideas from him)*. To this end, while CTU usually follows a sort of similar list of event... things have largely been ripped out wholesale and rewritten from the ground up. Would this then arguably make even the game characters within CTU be OCs at this point? In the context of the original game Crono is merely a silent someone who gets bounced around a lot, no one much knows why he agrees to all of it, and the sole defining thing anyone can say for sure about him is that he did in fact sacrifice himself to Lavos of his own volition. By this strict analysis of actual canon, it isn't hard to argue that our implementation of Crono is 99.99% unborrowed from the games. Or how about Crono's Cat in CTU. While it was true that Crono had a cat in the original game, that entire half sentence preceeding this latter half of the sentence was the entirety of facts you could say about what almost was arguably just animated furniture for his house. Does then cat in CTU count as original character? Or does the mere fact it was actually in CT mean it is not such, massive original effort magically ignored? Is everyone in CTU an original character? Or is the definition so strict that only Jenny counts? Where does such a line get drawn? Does the line perhaps exist leniently enough to permit Cat, but not Crono, to be considered an original character? How loose? How tight? How do you people percieve what I am working on?

* For some, portraying CTU like this has been a matter of contention as they don't want an original story progression... they just seem to want a series of greatest hits moments parodies skits and want me to get on with it whenever plot is happening. Fortunately for them, we have Mega-Elixer which serves precisely the comedy angle they are looking. Actually, I like Mega-Elixer myself as well... it's just not what the CTU project is gunning for.

[Mr Bekkler]

Expanding upon existing characters is fine, but that doesn't make them original characters. The King Zeal example is good for explaining this. I think there's more gray area in the case of nameless NPCs that have expanded roles in fan works.

Keep in mind that I'm not saying the effort "magically disappears" as you put it, but they're still not original characters.

A better example: the X-Men movies. Specifically the first one. That is NOT the X-Men from the comic. But they're not original characters, just a different take on existing characters.

[Clovis15]

The real reason I ask is because the author of Secret of Mana Theater was once driven by his critics to stop working on SoMT for multiple years after enduring years of complaints where a bunch of people constantly declared to him that he wasn't doing any real creative work at all, he was just merely following the game's plot (yes, I know there were other factors also). That's sort of funny considering his series has gone for over 300 episodes, could be another 300 flash episodes before it's done, and I could probably compile every single line of relevant plot dialogue from the game catridge nicely onto a single page of paper. Having played through the game, I can safely say the beyond a few superficial plot events the writing is his series is completely free of being based on anything from the game outside of sharing artwork with it.

That said, you are right to say it wouldn't exist had there never been a Secret of Mana. This is not an unfair counter-complaint, the same is true of CTU. I never meant to imply CTU exists in some sort of vacuum wholly seperated from the original game, but I realize now rereading my original post that it probably came off that way. In fact, the entire post was written in a bad frame of mind as evidenced by the complete and total lack of paragraph breaks I used while making it.

Maybe I shouldn't have asked here at all. I actually don't want credit for making Chrono Trigger, nor do I have some sort of desire to protect fanfiction's honor. I actually think 99% of all fanfiction is beyond stupid (I'm not necessarily pointing fingers at anyone here, it's simply made true by the sheer volumes of trash that pour into places like Fanfiction.net everyday). Asking in this thread only confused the issue of what I'm actually getting at.

How does anyone percieve the actual creative effort quotient of something like this? Do we only get credit for writing jokes, or perhaps even less? Insinuations of this nature are something I've had my fair share of recieving in the production of working on CTU. After all, sprite artists are the de facto scum of Newgrounds. I'm sorry I outbursted at all, I think I merely accidentally set off a landmine within myself while reading the thread.

I apologize for interrupting the conversation, pretend it never happened and just return to the topic as normal.