Crimson Echoes leaked

[Boo the Gentleman Caller]

I had to figure out what was going on over there and being discussed...

So someone is claiming that Buu is actually Zeality, and that he faked (with other Compendium management) the C&D to build massive support for Crimson Echoes...? So this was all a publicity stunt.

I am going to assume on good faith that this is untrue, despite the silence from Zeality and the others since the leak found it's way out. Also, when I called Square Enix corporate May 2009 and asked about it, they said that they do not make public comments on any business matter. The number I called is saved on my phone still (although I don't know if it still works 1-310-846-0400). So if this is all a sham, then Square Enix actually helped you, hahaha...

If it was all a con, then it's a damn fine one that has obviously long been in the making. However, I think I'll feel a bit taken advantage of by those doing it. But heck, I'll quickly be happy again, because I'm finally playing Crimson Echoes!

[Lord J Esq]

Come now, Boo. It's not a publicity stunt. I have no idea if the new leak was caused by ZeaLitY or anyone else on the dev team (as opposed to some random beta tester), but I can definitely attest that the Cease & Desist demand was genuine; I talked to one of their lawyers myself during that time. It doesn't matter what "someone" is claiming. People can make stupid claims on any subject. See: Religion. I can claim that Masato Kato visited me in a dream and revealed to me the plot for the next Chrono game, but I'd be lying.

Julius Caesar said, "What [people] wish, they like to believe." Perhaps you're not being clear-minded about this because you'd like to believe that SE isn't putting the kabosh on fan projects. But if all this were a publicity stunt, I'd say the dev team has done a bad job of building a wellspring of popular support, given that the Compendium practically killed Kajar Labs (which had a bad effect on several Chrono fan projects), and even constrained discussion on Crimson Echoes and the technical aspects of its development. Look at the CE walkthrough vids on YouTube; most of the videos haven't been commented on in a year.

[Boo the Gentleman Caller]

Lord J, thanks for the encouraging words, but my post didn't make sense like I intended... Please forgive me; I just re-read it and saw how it sounded (accusatory). However, I'm not going to edit that post, rather, I'll create this one.

First I paraphrased the situation (Para. 1 and 2). Next I stated my experience in the matter (Para. 3) For the record, I don't actually think that any of that hogwash is true; in my opinion, there are too many holes in the story for it to be true. In fact, I doubt any of us Compendiumites think that it's true. However, stranger things have happened, so I won't say with 100% probability that it wasn't all a "con".

Ultimately the point of the post was what was meant to be a meaningful conclusion: who cares. If it's true or isn't, what ultimately matters is that we now have Crimson Echoes in the hands of those who deserve it: the fans. I just hope that in doing so those who gave it to us don't suffer for it.

Edit: And I just used "ultimately" twice back to back. Shame on me and for not reading my posts before I place them.

[Yourgingerestfan]

Boo , you said your playing it , so that means Buu's link is real right ?

I don't really want to check it myself ...it could be a rick roll ? XD

I don't really know what to say though , nobody ever wants the compendium to get into trouble we'll have to wait and see what happens.

[Boo the Gentleman Caller]

Gingerest, the links were real. This was a genuine leak/release. Essentially there are two versions (from my understanding). One is the Flames of Eternity, and the other is a more complete version of the beta (with new tech's, although there are still some typo's here and there and Frog remains a frog and not a human). I've also heard that the last sections of the game are completely separate with drastically different endings.

[Lord J Esq]

Really? The ending of CE was practically the best part of the game. Do you just mean the very ending, after the final boss? Or do you mean the whole final dungeons sequence and final boss?

[Clovis15]

A) Indeed, it'd be very bad. However, I don't think they could really turn into those drastic methods? That could probably bring them a bad image. Taking into account that other companies haven't gone that far for the fanprojects of their games as well.

While companies will often try to cast a semi-blind eye to the fans that feed them, it's not entirely true that there aren't companies/people suing fans for doing much less than what the Compendium was doing back then. Rather than give a complete break down of all the cases, I'll just go to one of the more infamous incidents to have actually transpired. In 2000 - Anne Rice, creator of the Vampire Chronicles - had legal restraining orders sent to any place that carried fanfiction based on her works (she skipped the C&D step), and her stance on the matter has not changed once since.* So while it might not be the norm, it's fully doable for Square-Enix to decide they're tired of having fan tributes popping up and deciding the best course of action is to just burn it all off at the root once and for all.

* Do not get the impression that I used to be a fan, I have never liked Vampire stories.

[Schala Zeal]

Anne Rice needs to get off her time of the month it seems.......

[Lord J Esq]

Anne Rice needs to get off her time of the month it seems.......

That's outrageous. Could it possibly be the case that her views on fanfiction don't have anything to do with her being a female?

[Schala Zeal]

True.... but people like that probably deserve to be condescended.

[Clovis15]

The part that most bothers is me that often when companies do this, they actually are aware of the fact that the fans have a legal right to defend themselves... but can't afford to. Crimson Echoes may well have been defendable in court, but Square-Enix knew they'd never have to worry about that as no one in their right mind would be paying the legal fees to defend that as they don't have that kind of money (and if they did, they probably would have just offered Square-Enix the money up front before they ever started development). In our legal system you don't have to be in the right at all, you just have to know that the opposition is too poor to be right.

If Square-Enix decided to trample all Chrono fans at a once it would certainly be a black mark against them, and they would lose some customers, and yet being a total bitch for 10 years running so far hasn't stopped enough of Anne Rice's fans from continuining to read her to actually make a significant impact.

Anyways, that's why this leak scares me. If you get a company angry enough...

[Lord J Esq]

True.... but people like that probably deserve to be condescended.

Sure. On the merits. You can't just tap into a deep-seated vein of cultural bigotry because you don't like a person's views on something. If you do it anyway, do you know what that makes you? It makes you a bigot. Haven't you been on the receiving end of enough bigotry to want to prevent yourself from participating in it?

[Schala Zeal]

I just think people like this need to be shot...........I just have no incentive to throw my life away.

[Lord J Esq]

The part that most bothers is me that often when companies do this, they actually are aware of the fact that the fans have a legal right to defend themselves... but can't afford to.

You have a partial point here. That is a factor in corporate legal policymaking. They often take a heavy-handed approach knowing that their victims have no recourse to pay for legal costs as they accrue, nor the capacity to afford to lose the case and be saddled with fines and further court costs. Big companies, on the other hand, have whole departments dedicated to taking people to court, and can afford the occasional loss. It's a very different level of risk for them than for individuals and small businesses, and they know it--and they abuse that disparity. In this much you are quite correct, and it speaks to our need for legal reform in this country.

On the other hand...it's probably not the case that under current intellectual property laws Crimson Echoes would have been able to defend itself. I guess it depends on what you would imagine a successful defense to entail. SE probably wouldn't have been able to shut down the Compendium permanently, but the Compendium almost certainly wouldn't have been able to retain the right to continue to distribute CE as it had been. I think the best outcome would have been for our lawyers--had we had any--to negotiate some kind of settlement. SE pretty much killed a feature-length video game in a popular franchise that it spent zero dollars to develop. With legal gravitas on our side, perhaps we could have persuaded them to agree to develop the game further and release it as a commercial title. Perhaps that might have happened through negotiation, but it would not have happened in court. In court, I don't think CE had a chance.

Anyways, that's why this leak scares me. If you get a company angry enough...

If you want to see real corporate evil on this front, check out these copyright trolls:

https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2010/09/righthavens-own-brand-copyright-trolling

~~~

I just think people like this need to be shot...........I just have no incentive to throw my life away.

You think she should be shot because she takes an authoritarian view of protecting her property rights? Yeah, I guess that might be slightly more offensive than saying she has those views in the first place because she's a female on her period.

Hey, word of advice: If you are trying to be an asshole, you are doing a very good job of it. If that isn't your intention, I can only appeal to your common sense and ask you to put some thought into your comments before you make them.

[Clovis15]

I actually wasn't saying that CE would have survived in court, I was just saying it wouldn't have mattered whether the law had been on its side or not due to the disparity of justice being attached to who has more money (Square-Enix). However, I can see how it might have looked as if I was.

Also, I hate patent trolling with a burning passion. Those who file vaguely worded patents, with no intentions of ever adding anything to this world, just so that they can rape people later on who make something for real... REALLY SHOULD BE SHOT. They are literally trying to be parasites.