Hehe, something ironic I just figured out

[jotabe1789]

Yeah you are completely right!

I guess they are not very consistent in CT about their time rules.

That would fit with my theory, somehow, though Doan's future would be placed too far from the point where Crono and co. change the future (farther than the relaxation time Tau). So they can only change the future of their own timeline, and Doan's timeline would go on existing independently, without collapsing with Crono's.

What do you think? ^_^

Edit: talking about Marle's staying out of the existance, her description of the place where she was always reminded me of Han Solo's description of being frozen in carbonite, in the novels.

[SilentMartyr]

I got yer back...

Quick version: It's not a plothole because it was the Entity's doing.

that iz teh lame!!!!!1!!

Edit: Deleted my obfuscatory rebuttal; figured my 1337 could hold its own.

(sigh)

Fine, here is the long and makes me have to type more explination.

The main basis of argument to the reason that the said event (Marle's dissapearance seemingly due to Queen Leene's impending death) is a plothole is because of the grandfather paradox and how it would destroy the continuity of the timeline for the game. Look at how Marle's dissapearance actually occured. First of all, she only dissapeared once Crono had confirmation that it was her. Not when he first saw her, not when she first was mistaken for Leene. And again when she returns, it is as soon as Crono returned to the room where she dissapeared. Not as soon as Yakra was killed, nor when they safely reached the castle. See a pattern here? I certainly do.

This whole event was concocted by the entity. It needed the 600 A.D. event to occur so that Crono, Marle, and Lucca would meet Frog. Becuase without Frog they most likely would not have been able to confront Magus. Not because of a lack of power, but because they wouldn't have been able to get to the castle without knowledge of the seal on the Magic Cave and how to open it. I could go farther into how deep the entity planned but it is not needed for this discussion. So anyways, the entity needed a way to get them to meet. Leene's dissapearance proved to be excellent because Frog would be there no matter what. Without the entity sending Marle to the DBT, Crono and Lucca would have never searched for the real Leene. They would have gone back through the portal and been done with the adventure. So the entity imprisoned Marle in front of Crono, and let Lucca do the rest.

Whew, I hope that explains it.

[jotabe1789]

I don't know... if the entity was so powerful to make a person disappear and put her "somewhere else", it could have arranged things to take care of Lavos itself... furthermore, the whole scene has a huge similarity to Back to the Future, so i think that that's what the creators intended to depict.

[CatchRBFivy]

Edit: talking about Marle's staying out of the existance, her description of the place where she was always reminded me of Han Solo's description of being frozen in carbonite, in the novels.

Watch Star Wars IV-VI, then play FFVI....the similarities are disgusting i thought.

Biggs and Wedge are both Rebel pilots in the first and last battle against the death star, but one (Biggs i think) dies in episode IV's assault.

You're battling the evil empire.

The storm troops are sorta similar to the imperial soldiers of Ghestal.

there are a lot others i noticed but i cannot remember....maybe i shoudl go through the game again and write them down as i notice them, or watch the movies.


***sorry to go off on a wild tangent***

[Daniel Krispin]

Edit: talking about Marle's staying out of the existance, her description of the place where she was always reminded me of Han Solo's description of being frozen in carbonite, in the novels.

Watch Star Wars IV-VI, then play FFVI....the similarities are disgusting i thought.

Biggs and Wedge are both Rebel pilots in the first and last battle against the death star, but one (Biggs i think) dies in episode IV's assault.

You're battling the evil empire.

The storm troops are sorta similar to the imperial soldiers of Ghestal.

there are a lot others i noticed but i cannot remember....maybe i shoudl go through the game again and write them down as i notice them, or watch the movies.


***sorry to go off on a wild tangent***

Ummm... I played only about two or three hours of VI, but I found nothing the same in that time, save for the slight allusion of the two Rebels - Biggs Darklighter, Luke's friend who is amongst the pilots who perish in the struggle against the first Death Star, and Wedge Antilles, the famed, and arguably greatest, star-pilot of the later Star Wars saga. And, if you truly wish, I suppose it might be thought that Locke is similar to Han Solo, but that is a stretch. The idea of battling an empire is hardly unique, and let us not forget: Star Wars itself is originally based upon Akira Kurusawa's 'Hidden Fortress.'

[CatchRBFivy]

yeah i regretted posting this after i reread it but was too lazy or tired to edit....i realized taht fighting an empire is such a cliche in moral films such as star wars or games like final fantasy.  Its just that i never realized these smal similarities until recently becausei got the dvd box set of the OT and been watching it over and over and over again, then i picked up FFVI

but ghestal's army and the clone army do kinda look alike...

[Daniel Krispin]

yeah i regretted posting this after i reread it but was too lazy or tired to edit....i realized taht fighting an empire is such a cliche in moral films such as star wars or games like final fantasy.  Its just that i never realized these smal similarities until recently becausei got the dvd box set of the OT and been watching it over and over and over again, then i picked up FFVI

but ghestal's army and the clone army do kinda look alike...

But you know what is alike? Star Wars IV and the movie 'the Battle of Britain'. Watch the scenes of the dogfights, and how their com-chatter goes. It is plain to see where Lucas was influenced from.

[CatchRBFivy]

I"m glad you mentioned that ebcause its in the dvd set special features.  They actualyl admit that the dog fights were so hard to do at the time wtih the technology that they had to just mimic the battle of britain to ease the process.

I'm guessing you got the info for the last post from that dvd because if you didn't it actually shows during the commentary how they did it by splitting the screen.  It is timed almost exactly the same way, very cool to watch what they did and that they are admitting it is even better.

[Daniel Krispin]

I"m glad you mentioned that ebcause its in the dvd set special features.  They actualyl admit that the dog fights were so hard to do at the time wtih the technology that they had to just mimic the battle of britain to ease the process.

I'm guessing you got the info for the last post from that dvd because if you didn't it actually shows during the commentary how they did it by splitting the screen.  It is timed almost exactly the same way, very cool to watch what they did and that they are admitting it is even better.

Actually, no. I once heard long ago, on some very old interview, that they based the dogfights on old war movies, but I never knew which one. Then one day I watched the Battle of Britain, and it struck me as so similar, I knew it had to be this one.

[Lordchander]

On a slightly different note, does anyone find it strange that Doan was able to appear in the ending to CT completely unchanged. Lucca is the one that brought the Guardia line to the castle, so there's no way he wouldn't be some kind of Chronopolean advisor or something.

Greatest...plothole...ever...

or it could be:

That would fit with my theory, somehow, though  Doan's future would be placed too far from the point where Crono and co. change the future (farther than the relaxation time Tau). So they can only change the future of their own timeline, and Doan's timeline would go on existing independently, without collapsing with Crono's.

So are you saying that the Doan we see at the end of the game is nothing but the one from the original timeline?

Or maybe he had the TTI himself. Very possible, but highly unlikely.

[jotabe1789]

Yeah, i would say so. After all, look at his clothing, al wrinkled and stuff. If his time had changed, he would be well dressed ^_^.

Do you remember Dragon Ball? in Dragon Ball, the Trunk's future was unaffected by the events on the main story timeline (so we see in one of the movies). Maybe Toriyama also took part in the discussions about the plot (it would make sense, as char designer, and because he had experience with time-travelling plots). And it looks like for the people of 2300AD the same happened in CT.

[Lordchander]

That would make sense, Akira added his 2 cents worth to the creators of the game about his DBZ time travelling plot. So maybe we just havent touched on what Akira really had in mind.

Maybe its not a plot hole!        

PS: I think that is like the first time anyones said that about the Doan thing!

[jotabe1789]

Lol personally i wouldn't let Toriyama to mess with any "time travelling" story DragonBall has more plotholes than a Gruyere cheese

[Lordchander]

nice comparison

[jotabe1789]

Thx   cheese-lover over here lol