Author Topic: Norstein Bekkler, who is he?  (Read 15764 times)

AuraTwilight

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Norstein Bekkler, who is he?
« Reply #120 on: July 27, 2005, 03:33:47 pm »
Well, Serge in CC does use Elements, so that's irrelevent. and Absorbing the arbiter is absolutely pointless. What benefit is there by drawing power from himself? Schala had her own, unique power like Janus did, and there's no evidence of her being the arbiter. Not like it's relevent anyway.

Legend of the Past

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Norstein Bekkler, who is he?
« Reply #121 on: July 27, 2005, 03:38:15 pm »
Quote from: AuraTwilight
Well, Serge in CC does use Elements, so that's irrelevent. and Absorbing the arbiter is absolutely pointless. What benefit is there by drawing power from himself? Schala had her own, unique power like Janus did, and there's no evidence of her being the arbiter. Not like it's relevent anyway.


Mammom.M probably contains the FF. Schala is the only one who controlles the Mammon.M. Thus, Schala is the only one capable of controlling the FF. Sounds familiar?

As for Elements... And? I was talking Tech-wise. Serge in RD is weak, while Serge in CC has stuff like Flying Arrow and Luminaire. And Techs are there, regardless of Elements.

Please, reply to the things I say just as I said them. It's like putting words in my mouth,

AuraTwilight

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Norstein Bekkler, who is he?
« Reply #122 on: July 27, 2005, 03:43:34 pm »
Quote
Please, reply to the things I say just as I said them. It's like putting words in my mouth,


Hypocrisy; It's what's for dinner. Too bad I wasn't quoting you on anything.

The Mammon Machine PROBABLY contains the Mammon Machine. Tis the keyword here. The problem with the Frozen Flame being here is this; if the Frozen Flame is with the Kingdom of Zeal and the Ocean Palace,/Black Omen, and we need to get the Frozen Flame for Chronopolis, then that means we have to have Zeal's ruins be discovered, which they haven't done. This presents a problem. This can't be compromised.

The spells in CT were listed with the Techs. They just had stars next to them. WTF is your point? Flying Arrow and Luminare are spells.

Legend of the Past

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Norstein Bekkler, who is he?
« Reply #123 on: July 27, 2005, 03:45:53 pm »
Quote from: AuraTwilight
Quote
Please, reply to the things I say just as I said them. It's like putting words in my mouth,


Hypocrisy; It's what's for dinner. Too bad I wasn't quoting you on anything.

The Mammon Machine PROBABLY contains the Mammon Machine. Tis the keyword here. The problem with the Frozen Flame being here is this; if the Frozen Flame is with the Kingdom of Zeal and the Ocean Palace,/Black Omen, and we need to get the Frozen Flame for Chronopolis, then that means we have to have Zeal's ruins be discovered, which they haven't done. This presents a problem. This can't be compromised.

The spells in CT were listed with the Techs. They just had stars next to them. WTF is your point? Flying Arrow and Luminare are spells.


Chronopolis states to have found in the eastern\western (Can't quiet remember) section of the El-Nido SEA.

jotabe1789

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Norstein Bekkler, who is he?
« Reply #124 on: July 27, 2005, 08:28:55 pm »
Well, the FF has a will on its own, so probably it wouldn't be a problem for it to move to other place to be found. Problem is: how is it independent from Lavos? Even if it was a part of Lavos, is it connected to it anymore?
Mammon Machine is stated to be used to draw power from Lavos, who is in the mantle of the planet. Meanwhile, the FF has an awful lot of power on its own... why would it be used to draw power from Lavos?
Questions  :wink:

ZeaLitY

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Norstein Bekkler, who is he?
« Reply #125 on: February 20, 2006, 11:26:47 pm »
Inquiry

Who is Norstein Bekkler? Belthasar notes that he knows of the magician, and Bekkler also has the ability to create clones.

Theories

Zeal Refugee

Norstein Bekkler is a playful magician from Zeal who somehow learned of the Gates or time travel by other means and sought out festivals throughout history.

~

The rest of this thread is meh.

Augenstein

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Norstein Bekkler, who is he?
« Reply #126 on: February 21, 2006, 02:38:31 am »
I noticed that Bekkler appears as a floating head with floating hands, as does the transformation of Queen Zeal. Is it possible there is some connection?

SilentMartyr

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Norstein Bekkler, who is he?
« Reply #127 on: February 21, 2006, 12:10:10 pm »
Possibly in the magic that is used to perform the feat, but I really doubt that Zeal has any connections to Bekkler.

Mystik3eb

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Norstein Bekkler, who is he?
« Reply #128 on: February 21, 2006, 03:52:45 pm »
I keep imagining Norstein Bekkler as some kinda bad guy in some way. I love this character, he's mysterious and completely unknown, except he makes clones and runs a magic shop in the Millenial Fair, and yeah, somehow Belthasar knows of him.

Maybe he's the Entity? *shrug* That'd be funny.

Great character for fooling around with in CT hacks or fanfics, methinks.

Chrono'99

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Norstein Bekkler, who is he?
« Reply #129 on: February 21, 2006, 04:08:00 pm »
There's nothing so special about Belthasar knowing him. Everybody in the Millenial Fair saw him...

AuraTwilight

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Norstein Bekkler, who is he?
« Reply #130 on: February 21, 2006, 07:04:20 pm »
Norstein Bekkler could just be a Mystic or something.

ChronoMagus

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Norstein Bekkler, who is he?
« Reply #131 on: February 21, 2006, 09:26:56 pm »
Or some freak who chopped off his arms... and then uses magic to suspend them.  He is not special in a world with chancellors that turn into monsters and seek out revenge for ancestors that were also chancellor monsters... really he is not that amazing.   :roll:
I mean there were skeltal monsters in the dungeon of Guardia... why would some loser magician who knows how to clone be so amazing.

hiddensquire

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Re: Norstein Bekkler, who is he?
« Reply #132 on: February 01, 2009, 03:53:04 pm »
You know, the majority of this thread should really be split into another topic, as it goes massively off-topic for at least a good 8 pages right after the first 10 posts or so.

I find it necessary to necro this topic because I noticed that the Compendium's encyclopedia has two articles on Bekkler that both only give one possible explanation as to his identity when clearly there are more.

Before even finding this site, I personally had always assumed that Norstein Bekkler was Belthasar's ghost wandering throughout time.  Even though Belthasar copied his memory into the nu before dying, this is to say nothing about his actual soul, which presumably still has the original set of his memories.  That's always the problem with trying to remain immortal by copying your memories into clones; from your clone's perspective and from the rest of the world's perspective, you're still "alive," but from your (the original's) perspective, you're dead.  Given that Belthasar spent so much of his life trying to overcome the laws of time, it doesn't seem too much of a stretch to say that his spirit would be able to transcend it to a degree.  The fact that Bekkler is a tad on the nutty side completely fits in with Belthasar's self-diagnosed declining sanity towards the time of his death, and also explains why he took on the alternate name and ego.  As for how the nu copy knew of Bekkler, the ghost could have easily appeared before him himself at some point.  Same with how Gaspar knew of him, though Gaspar presumably could have also learned just by spying throughout time.

Kyronea in particular gave another very interesting alternative explanation in this topic.  In summary, it suggested that every guru had their own dream entity(ies); Melchior: Masa/Mune/Doreen(?), Gaspar: Spekkio, Belthasar: Norstein Bekkler.  Melchior's dream entities are already well established, and Spekkio being Gaspar's dream entity is at least suggested by Chrono'99 in the Spekkio origin encyclopedia article, but there is no such mention in the articles for Bekkler.  I actually like this idea better than my own; it unifies the gurus in yet another aspect.  Bekkler is totally whimsical and transcendent enough in nature to be a dream entity, and again makes a good alter-ego for Belthasar who was starting to go crazy.
« Last Edit: February 01, 2009, 08:18:44 pm by hiddensquire »

Acacia Sgt

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Re: Norstein Bekkler, who is he?
« Reply #133 on: February 01, 2009, 04:25:28 pm »
Belthasar is the Guru of Reason, not time.
« Last Edit: February 01, 2009, 04:28:10 pm by Acacia Sgt »

ZealKnight

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Re: Norstein Bekkler, who is he?
« Reply #134 on: February 01, 2009, 06:53:49 pm »
Just to go back to that Zeal theory. I do remember when you go to the Black Omen, before the fight with the Mammon Machine, in the walkway float clones or images of the team. Now this is just a crazy theory, but could this link him to Zeal? Maybe he is the Dream creature of Belthazar, but do dream creatures share the same knowledge as their creators, assuming Belthazar was the reasons these clones exist in the Black Omen? Or perhaps is he a dream of Queen Zeal. They bare a similar appearance, they both have clones (although questionable as to where the clones came from), and they both seem crazy. Perhaps this is her playfulness escaping or being shunned from her body? In other word is it a little of both theories?