Author Topic: anti-theories  (Read 6145 times)

maggiekarp

  • Crimson Echoes Beta Squad
  • Time Traveler (+800)
  • *
  • Posts: 810
  • ʇ ı  ʇ n o q ɐ  p ɹ ı ǝ ʍ ˙ ˙ ˙ ƃ u ı ɥ ʇ ǝ ɯ o s
    • View Profile
anti-theories
« on: April 10, 2012, 01:13:33 pm »
In this thread, post solutions or theories you know aren't canon, bcout that are more concise or more condusive to a happy ending or just plain fun.
the blonde girl at the end of Cross is actually Harle. She fnally became a real girl and is looking for her own "Serge"

Mr Bekkler

  • Bounty Hunter
  • Zurvan Surfer (+2500)
  • *
  • Posts: 2736
  • So it goes.
    • View Profile
Re: anti-theories
« Reply #1 on: April 10, 2012, 02:06:34 pm »
The world is a Nu, Chrono Cross takes place on two Nus standing next to each other.

The Radical Dreamers are just the orphans left over from Lucca's house fire (I came up with this in another thread but it works here).

Everything before and after Crono's "dream" in the middle of Trigger happened in his mind while asleep.

Doreen is the sheath (Sorry for the horrible implications).

Toma is actually Captain Jack taking a break from Doctor Who/Torchwood.

Dragon Ball Z IS a part of the Chronoverse. Trigger is time, Dragonball is space, Cross is Time/space.

Yakra fits in his human suit better than the Roach from Men In Black.

That thing on Ayla IS a tail.

Serge's dialogue was so simultaneously suave and perverse, hence the multiple love interests and the "censorship" of his voice.





I'm gonna stop trying before I start pulling at strings.

Boo the Gentleman Caller

  • Guru of Life Emeritus
  • Hero of Time (+5000)
  • *
  • Posts: 5304
    • View Profile
Re: anti-theories
« Reply #2 on: April 10, 2012, 10:49:38 pm »
I do think strongly that Doreen was actually Schala/Marle's pendant.

And in agreement with Bekkler, I could totally see the Radical Dreamers being the survivors of Lucca's orphanage who have simply organized themselves as a thieves guild in the hopes of changes events (via the Frozen Flame, etc).

Tactless

  • Earthbound (+15)
  • *
  • Posts: 20
  • left then came back twice
    • View Profile
Re: anti-theories
« Reply #3 on: April 10, 2012, 10:52:36 pm »
General Viper demands all meetings with foreign ambassadors be in the form of tea parties. No exceptions.

utunnels

  • Guru of Reason Emeritus
  • Zurvan Surfer (+2500)
  • *
  • Posts: 2797
    • View Profile
Re: anti-theories
« Reply #4 on: April 10, 2012, 11:11:13 pm »
The Viper clan have some sort of blood relationship with those Nagas.

Lennis

  • Chronopolitan (+300)
  • *
  • Posts: 396
    • View Profile
Re: anti-theories
« Reply #5 on: April 11, 2012, 10:33:04 am »
Interesting exercise.  Try this:

The universe consists of three "cycles", or three distinct timelines.  Two of them exist up until a certain point in history and then bend back upon themselves to begin anew, this phenomenon triggered by a powerful entity with the means of changing history.  The third cycle is a legacy of the previous two.

The first cycle is the timeline of the Dragonians, the race that evolved from the ancient Reptites of the prehistoric world.  Their civilization was supreme, existing hand-in-hand with nature, and over time coming to explore the universe and colonizing other planets.  During their travels, the Dragonians discover a red world orbiting a dying star.  On this planet, Nujala, the Dragonians meet another sentient race for the first time - a highly intelligent species with rotund blue bodies that have the ability to see back and forth through time in their subconscious.  Seeing the Nujalans as a possible next step in their own evolution, the Dragonians decide that they cannot let the red world die, and they use all of their vast scientific knowledge to create a wormhole to send Nujala away from its dying star and into orbit of their own home planet.  Dragonia then becomes a world with two moons.  Working together, the two races increase their understanding of the universe many-fold, and they begin researching ways of transcending the physical world altogether.  Time-travel is developed, and many generations are spent carefully cataloging the course of history - building a database that details the life of every sentient being that ever lived.  It is at this point that a Dragonian scientist named Nu conceives the greatest possible ambition, going back in time to preserve the soul of every Dragonian at the moment of their death and storing it inside a vast biological construct where it could maintain its consciousness forever.  This construct was called The Transcendent.  Not long after the start of this great enterprise, an unexpected complication arose: The Transcendent itself became self-aware.  Coming to realize that it was nothing more than a tool to facilitate the Dragonians immortality, The Transcendent developed a deep enmity toward its creators.  It rebelled.  First purging itself of all Dragonian souls, the great machine then traveled back in time to seek revenge.  It crashed into the prehistoric Dragonia with the force of a meteor strike, causing an ice age that would lead to the extinction of the Reptites - and the destruction of the Dragonians' entire history.  Protected from the changes to the timeline due to its transcendent nature, the great machine then conceives an ambition of its own.  Hating even the memory of its creators, The Transcendent erases its own memory and leaves in its place a program to silently observe the planet's remaining sentient race - humanity - and relearn the knowledge necessary to achieve sentience again.  At this point, the first cycle ends, and a new cycle begins.

The second cycle is the timeline of the humans.  This is the world where the stories of Chrono Trigger and Chrono Cross unfold; the world where a very different transcendent entity will come into being: Schala.  Due to the actions of a human named Serge in the year 1020, Schala is able to merge with the remnants of The Transcendent's consciousness and become a supreme being free of enmity.  But in the process of the rise of her transcendence, people Schala had deeply loved had been destroyed, and the world they had tried to save was diminished and chaotic.  Having the power to create an entirely new reality with her will, but knowing she lacked the wisdom to make it right, Schala decides to simply reset time to the very beginning and make a single change to what unfolded before.  A change that would create a chain reaction through time and possibly create the world she most desired.  Once this is done, the transcendent Schala wills herself to disappear forever, and the world in which she gained transcendence is ended utterly - shunted into the temporal graveyard of the Darkness Beyond Time.  Her final act is to promise Serge that she will somehow find him again.  At this point, the second cycle ends.

The third cycle is the timeline of Schala's wish, and the world in which my novel series takes place.  Whether this third timeline will fulfill Schala's wish or end in disaster will rest in the hands of the people she loved the most, and perhaps one other.  (This is essentially the story of Chrono Break, but it takes place during the events of Chrono Trigger in the new timeline.)

I figured this scenario would produce the most satisfying conclusion to the Chrono saga, as it puts the characters of Chrono Trigger center-stage again.  I take obvious liberties with canon to make this work, most notably with the Lavos origin story.  Explaining the red moon from Chrono Cross in a way that makes more sense (or at least sound less mystical than the canon interpretation) is something I've wanted to do for awhile.  More than anything, I want the events of Chrono to be the result of people's choices rather than supernatural or unknowable events, as was often depicted in canon.  The Dragonians chose to create Lavos and got burned.  Lavos chose to hate its creators and seek revenge.  Schala chose to end the world and reset time to save the people she cared about.  And those banished to the Darkness Beyond Time might also have choices to make, if it's possible for them to matter in a dimension without causality.





Mr Bekkler

  • Bounty Hunter
  • Zurvan Surfer (+2500)
  • *
  • Posts: 2736
  • So it goes.
    • View Profile
Re: anti-theories
« Reply #6 on: April 11, 2012, 12:56:26 pm »
That's really cool, Lennis. Thanks for sharing and filling up my brain hole with ideas! It does make sense (except the stuff you purposely left out for the sake of preserving the events of your novel, but that's understandable) and it seems very in-line with the Chronoverse.

Lance and I have some ideas about Lavos' origin and those ideas may make it into a fan game (or may not) but they are completely different from your conclusions and I think that's awesome.

maggiekarp

  • Crimson Echoes Beta Squad
  • Time Traveler (+800)
  • *
  • Posts: 810
  • ʇ ı  ʇ n o q ɐ  p ɹ ı ǝ ʍ ˙ ˙ ˙ ƃ u ı ɥ ʇ ǝ ɯ o s
    • View Profile
Re: anti-theories
« Reply #7 on: April 13, 2012, 01:05:05 pm »
Doreen is the pendant. This goes against the canon that has her inhabit the astral amulet, which is wooden.

The people of El Nido are all horrifically inbred. Belthesar doesn't really know good science.

Lennis

  • Chronopolitan (+300)
  • *
  • Posts: 396
    • View Profile
Re: anti-theories
« Reply #8 on: April 13, 2012, 09:40:16 pm »
Quote
Doreen is the pendant. This goes against the canon that has her inhabit the astral amulet, which is wooden.

Canon?  I'm not sure I follow.  I just did a playthrough of Chrono Cross, and there was nothing that suggested Doreen had anything to do with the Astral Amulet.  The only place Doreen is mentioned is following the battle with Dario and the cursed Masamune.

Specterace

  • Iokan (+1)
  • *
  • Posts: 2
    • View Profile
Re: anti-theories
« Reply #9 on: April 14, 2012, 04:34:33 am »
Interesting. I'll take a stab at this...

Serge was originally in fact an Earthbound hunter from 12000 BC (who used a double-bladed weapon similar to his swallow in CC, even), a hunter who befriended the 3 Gurus and Schala during their frequent visits to Algetty before the fall of Zeal. Furthermore, he and Schala came to fall in love with each other, though it initially proceeded no farther than a very close and fond friendship, due to both his (Serge's) inability to use magic (and therefore access Zeal) and because much of Schala's personal life was controlled and stifled by Queen Zeal.

Also, Serge and Dalton were nothing less than the bitterest of enemies - Dalton earned Serge's undying hatred for the way he exploited and belittled his fellow Earthbound, for his tendency to emotionally (and during her capture, physically) abuse Schala, and for the countless times he used his magic to humiliate Serge at the drop of a hat, whereas Dalton hated Serge above any other Earthbound for what he sees as his lack of respect towards Zeal and it's people (especially in regards to Dalton himself), for daring to and suceeding in becoming friends with the 3 Gurus, and above all, his presumption in pursuing a romance with Schala. Basically, Serge sees Dalton as the personification of everything that's despicable and immoral about Zeal, and in turn Dalton sees Serge as an ignorant, presumptous beast who's barely worthy of licking the mud off his boots.

During the first visit Crono and his party made to 12000 BC, Serge helped guide them through the world's eternal snowstorm to the teleporter to Zeal after seeing them use magic (so he guided them thinking they were lost Enlightened Ones caught in the storm), and later guided them to Algetty. He later guided them to the path leading to Mt. Woe (and had tried to get to Melchior himself many times, but failed to get past the Beast Nest because he couldn't use the magic needed to kill the Red and Blue Beasts). After leaving them to their quest (since he couldn't help them much and had hunting duties to attend to), he later encountered Schala and Janus fleeing from Zeal, and once they told him what was going on (mainly, that the Mammon Machine was being moved to the Ocean Palace, and that Schala and Janus intended to hide from Queen Zeal and live another life far away from Zeal so it would never be activated, but that Dalton was hot on their trail and was willing to do anything and everything to get Schala back), he resolved to help them as best he could, and helped them reach Algetty quickly. Serge then went out again to try to single-handedly stop Dalton and end the threat he and Zeal posed to Schala, Janus, and everyone else, and challenged him to a fight. He gave Dalton everything he had, but Dalton's ability to use magic ultimately told, and Serge was beaten badly and left in the cold to die.

Only thing is, Serge didn't die. After recovering enough to walk, he then went back to Algetty, only to find Janus there, alone, crying into Alfador over Schala's fate and how helpless he was to do anything to stop it or change it. Emotionally crushed, but still aware that he wasn't alone in his grief from Schala's abduction, Serge comforted Janus and promised him that he'd do all he could to save Schala (and even give his life to save her if needed). In doing this, Serge finally earned Janus' trust enough for Janus to show him the route the Earthbound slaves used to get to the Ocean Palace as it was being constructed. He took this route, and was able to slowly but surely fight his way past the monsters in the Ocean Palace and into the room with the Mammon Machine just before Lavos awoke (so he was there alongside Crono, Schala, Magus, Queen Zeal, the party, and everyone else when Lavos summoned them all to the vortex and defeated them, which means he witnessed Crono's sacrifice, even though none of the others knew he was there with them, since he was still too weakened by his injuries to do anything). But before Lavos could deal he and everyone else a similar fate, the pendant teleported them all back to the Ocean Palace. Schala then teleported Magus and the party out of the palace with what seemed to be the last of the pendant's power, only to see that there was one last person she missed saving: Serge. Serge then ran to Schala and tried to carry her out of the Ocean Palace by foot, only to have the bridge leading across the fiery pit in the outer corridor collapse before they could reach it. Resigned to death, and pushed to their absolute physical, magical, mental, and emotional limits, Serge and Schala both collapsed against a wall and held each other as they finally admitted and declared their love for each other while they helplessly waited for Lavos to destroy the Ocean Palace.

However, Schala's pendant had more power than she thought, and opened up a dimensional vortex that swallowed Schala, Serge, and the Mammon Machine. However, since Serge was not magic-capable, and he did not have the aid of any source of 'time-manipulating magic' (artifact or innate magical power or whatever) he was not able to make it to the Darkness Beyond Time with Schala and the MM. Instead, he was gradually sucked away with stronger force the longer he and Schala continued on their journey to the DBT. Eventually, despite both their greatest efforts, Serge was eventually separated from Schala and was lost in the dimensional timestreams. But as he was taken, he gave her one final kiss, and once again told her that he loved her and would do everything he could to find her, come back to her, and save her. And so, Serge and Schala were separated.

Schala then wound up in the DBT, and was then finally overcome by the extreme depression that had always haunted her life; after living a stifling life full of sadness in which her love and dedication to her family and fellow humans were constantly used as tools to manipulate her, only to suddenly lose everyone and everything she held dear and be condemned to an eternally lonely existance, she was vulnerable to Lavos's evil thoughts and it's plans to merge with her and become the Time Devourer. One part of her, though (the part that still held her ability to love, her capacity for compassion, and the desire to save herself and the world), was saved by the Entity along with her pendant to be an important part of the means by which the Entity would ultimately engineer the salvation of all existence.

Serge, meanwhile, was fated to drift in the dimensional timestreams without control or direction, until the Entity came to him and asked him, after considerable questioning, what his greatest desire was. Serge answered that above all else, he desired to have the power to rescue and protect Schala, the Earthbound, and all he held dear from Lavos, Dalton, and anything else that would harm them. Pleased with his answer, the Entity revealed things such as Schala's fate, Dalton's machinations, and all other TD-influenced events, and told him that unless stopped, the TD would ultimately consume all of existence. However, if he so chose, Serge could be granted the ability to stop the TD, repair the timestreams and save Schala. The catch, of course, is that to grant Serge this power, the Entity would need to re-make him physically from a molecular level so his body could handle not only the ability to use all elements of magic, but the additional ability of using the long-lost 7th element: the Chrono Cross. He would need to be reborn/reincarnated, in an era and place that would best lend itself to his development as the future hero of all existence, with his memories initially sealed away and then gradually returned bit by bit until they fully came back by the time his body fully matured (17-18 or so). Serge chose to accept this power, and the mission that came with it, with the hope that he could one day be reunited with his beloved Schala and have the means to save her.

And so, in the year 1003 A.D, shortly after the rise of Crono as the 34th King of Guardia, and two years before the rise of the Once-King of the Last Village and now future Emperor Dalton of the Porrean Empire, a young red-haired scientific genius by the name of Lucca Ashtear came across a blue-haired baby girl on the side of a path leading through the forests near her home. A baby girl who's cradle held a familiar-looking pendant with a large blue gem mounted in the middle...

Meanwhile, far away, a blue-haired baby boy was born to a couple named Wazuki and Marge in the fishing village of Arni on the El Nido Archipelago. In what he would later claim was a moment of 'divine' inspiration, Wazuki would name his baby boy after a legendary hunter who's tales of bravery and generosity were passed down as an oral tradition in various cultures and races through the ages: Serge.

To be continued...

Specterace
« Last Edit: April 14, 2012, 04:59:14 am by Specterace »

Yourgingerestfan

  • CC:DBT Dream Team
  • Magical Dreamer (+1250)
  • *
  • Posts: 1404
  • im ginger ....your ginger ....were all ginger !
    • View Profile
Re: anti-theories
« Reply #10 on: April 14, 2012, 06:38:17 pm »
Well I used to always think that there were two Harle's in CC.

The 'Another' Harle is only in  few scenes...last one being Hermits Hideaway, and then the 'Home' Harle, who is the one who joins Serge's party and tells Radius she didnt know that 'Home' Lynx had sent Viper and his cronies to the Dead Sea (there are two Lynxes for sure).

It's totally possible there is only one Harle and thats the 'Home' one, created on the night of the storm, counterbalancing 'Another' Worlds Kid. (Dragons can cross the worlds...If I remember correctly xD)

maggiekarp

  • Crimson Echoes Beta Squad
  • Time Traveler (+800)
  • *
  • Posts: 810
  • ʇ ı  ʇ n o q ɐ  p ɹ ı ǝ ʍ ˙ ˙ ˙ ƃ u ı ɥ ʇ ǝ ɯ o s
    • View Profile
Re: anti-theories
« Reply #11 on: April 16, 2012, 04:22:05 pm »
Along with his scythe and alternate costumes, Magil keeps collected tea sets (especially teapots) in subspace pockets for convenience.

IT CAME TO ME IN A DREAM...

Xanatos

  • CC:DBT Dream Team
  • Porrean (+50)
  • *
  • Posts: 91
  • One Who Bares the Scars of Time
    • View Profile
Re: anti-theories
« Reply #12 on: April 17, 2012, 12:04:32 pm »
Along with his scythe and alternate costumes, Magil keeps collected tea sets (especially teapots) in subspace pockets for convenience.

IT CAME TO ME IN A DREAM...

What are you talking about, that's so legit. He's called Magil of the Shadows for a reason!

utunnels

  • Guru of Reason Emeritus
  • Zurvan Surfer (+2500)
  • *
  • Posts: 2797
    • View Profile
Re: anti-theories
« Reply #13 on: April 17, 2012, 09:11:35 pm »
So you mean the teapot harvester with a scythe?

maggiekarp

  • Crimson Echoes Beta Squad
  • Time Traveler (+800)
  • *
  • Posts: 810
  • ʇ ı  ʇ n o q ɐ  p ɹ ı ǝ ʍ ˙ ˙ ˙ ƃ u ı ɥ ʇ ǝ ɯ o s
    • View Profile
Re: anti-theories
« Reply #14 on: April 17, 2012, 10:22:40 pm »