Wanted to share how I feel about Chrono Cross, and why.

[Kodokami]

I believe that Chrono Cross could've easily been a stand-alone game without any ties to Chrono Trigger.

Occasionally I think the same, but for Chrono Cross to be a stand-alone game would require quite a bit of remodeling. The primary driving force of the story is Schala, correct? Remove her, and what becomes the motivation for the Time Crash and everything else?

Instead of a re-installment of Radical Dreamers (which was fine by itself), the developers could have taken a different path. Belthasar and Robo would be a good start, since they now exist in a new future. Or perhaps a brand new story in the world of Chrono, with new characters and adventure. I guess Chrono Cross did do both of these, but in hindsight it is very lacking.

But the thing is, we at least got a sequel, right?

[Xenterex]

I know I've not come off as agreeable or diplomatic or whatnot in some of my previous posts over the years, but I do agree in some of the notion that CC could stand off on its own; the task isn't as daunting  imo as it might seem.  For one, most of the "changes" "oversights" "loose ends" and events the build up to make up Cross are contained within cross as is.  So one of the simplest changes would be to just change some of the names of places, events, people.  There isn't a frozen flame, arbiters, Kid, Time Devourer, Chronopolis and draconians in CT.  All these new concepts and such can simply have been relabeled to not necessarily tie directly back to CT, but rather be like a parallel of events in a similar world-set.  Esp since most of the heavy connections get shot out in exposition toward the end of the game anyway; just rewrite some of the text to be better self-contained.

Plus I think back when CC was being made (and it was more of a revised Radical Dreamers) it was only meant to come off as a possibility of events and not so much a direct sequel of consequences that it seems to have become with each rerelease of games from the Chrono-verse. 

------

As far as other game/sequel possibilities go, I think there's quite a number of other ends to explore, or event create; esp since alot of CC is "loose-end" fabrication.

1) Schala might not end up at the DBT at all.  After Crono's death, she's there with the pendant that he was wearing in the ocean palace. That gives here the option to leave herself.

2) Dalton.  Yea, I'm not big on Dalton necessarily being a 'finale' villain, but he can still create conflicts that create a chain of reactions.  Dalton was all for the whole Lavos-immortality gig that Queen Zeal was pushing, but I don't think he was present to see the extent of consequences that arose from Lavos; He could still be all gung-ho for that kind of power.  If he finds himself in the path of gates or other time-travel means, Dalton could be trying to unravel the changes that lead to the defeat of Lavos.  Or simply use his technological and magical prowess to plant himself in a position of authority in another era.

I had thought up a scenario that he teamed up with a Yakra plot to try and create dissension in Guardia.

3) The past/origins of Lavos.  It came from somewhere, and it can breed.  So that's not conjuring something crazy to say there are other Lavos-like threats elsewhere, or things that can exist in a similar manner.  I'd have thought it to be particularly interesting if another game took a multi-generational approach to epic conflicts.  That is, that the scope of the quest lasts longer than the life-spans of the initial protagonists; when you factor in time-travel though, you could be combining generations of heroes all in the same team.  Could get really crazy on game-play by using breeding features either like pokemon or Fire Emblem: Seisen no Keifu.

Game sequels don't necessarily need 'loose ends' to have a base to create a new game.  There are patterns to story telling parts that are becoming all-to-common these games.  The most prevalent is the three-act story telling.  So if you plug in Trigger as introductory, Cross as rising tension, there are things to be combined together to wrap up act 3.

Though personally, I don't think the Chrono-verse should shoot for a big new Episode 3 kinda game, but rather mini-games that just explore the 'possibilities' kinda approach of RD.  Stuff like a core 'collection' with more stories/add-ons as DLC kinda content.

[Rocky]

My biggest problem with Chrono Cross is that it seems to make a point of pushing Chrono Trigger aside instead of building on it or transforming it. It's like, screw you old game, this is the new one! From killing off/neutralizing CT cast members; to a new, undead, more powerful Lavos; smashing Guardia Kingdom when it seemed to be at the height of prosperity; the timeline getting cut to ribbons, and so on. It basically makes a World of Ruin out of the Chrono Trigger world, and negates much of what CTs plot accomplished.

You could tell a similar story without wiping the original cast, and without the Fall of Guardia, which irks me in particular.

In any case, the Fall of Guardia seems like a definite slight to CT, like a deliberate attempt to shatter the structure of the old world.

I believe that Chrono Cross could've easily been a stand-alone game without any ties to Chrono Trigger.

That was a much more concise version of the frustration I was trying to convey, xcalibur, and echoes my thoughts perfectly.  Thanks for sharing that.

[chi_z]

of course, many have stated that if CC were to be a standalone game, it would not be a bad game, but a HORRIBLE one  IMO CC is one of the greatest arps evuh.

[Rocky]

I personally don't think Chrono Cross being a sequel vs. being a stand-alone would affect how good it is all that much, if at all.  But it would affect how I felt about it.  If it was a solo game, I still wouldn't be drawn to it due to its story's over-the-top complexity and the lack of face time with such a vast number of characters.  However, it would just be like any other game that I could recognize as objectively good but that I just didn't personally enjoy.  In other words, I'd harbor no ill feelings toward it whatsoever.  It's just what it did to the CT world and characters that makes me very bitter toward it.

Chrono Cross is a quality game in many ways, I absolutely believe that.  To re-quote xcalibur, it's really just the "screw you old game" feel that leaves me disillusioned and bewildered - it was so unnecessary.

[xcalibur]

I believe that Chrono Cross could've easily been a stand-alone game without any ties to Chrono Trigger.

Occasionally I think the same, but for Chrono Cross to be a stand-alone game would require quite a bit of remodeling. The primary driving force of the story is Schala, correct? Remove her, and what becomes the motivation for the Time Crash and everything else?

It wouldn't be hard. set up a futuristic society where a scientist is experimenting with the time-dimension, and things go very awry, maybe sending Chronopolis into the past and dragging Dinopolis out of an alternate dimension. you could have a woman, not necessarily Schala, who held some key talent to manipulating time, and she gets sucked away and bound to an alien intelligence that wants to consume worlds.

it would only take moderate adjustment to make it a stand-alone RPG.

Instead of a re-installment of Radical Dreamers (which was fine by itself), the developers could have taken a different path. Belthasar and Robo would be a good start, since they now exist in a new future. Or perhaps a brand new story in the world of Chrono, with new characters and adventure. I guess Chrono Cross did do both of these, but in hindsight it is very lacking.

But the thing is, we at least got a sequel, right?

we got a sequel, but was it worth it? the more I consider this, the more I think that Chrono Cross would've been better without any ties to Chrono Trigger. the entire spirit and presentation of CC is profoundly different, and most of the links involved nerfing CT. It would've had more room to maneuver as its own game without the requirement to link itself to a different mythos. It may well be that Chrono Cross was only made a sequel to cash in on its predecessors success.

I'm sure I'll get some flames for this, but that is my view.

That was a much more concise version of the frustration I was trying to convey, xcalibur, and echoes my thoughts perfectly.  Thanks for sharing that.

no prob, I like to speak my mind.

[Rocky]

we got a sequel, but was it worth it?

My answer is strictly my opinion, based on my already elaborately stated feelings.  No.  It did a lot of things well, but the havoc it wreaked on the original game world far outweighs the positives.  Again, that's just how I feel.  And again, had it been a stand-alone, that would change my entire viewpoint - if it didn't violate the world I loved, I would no longer wish it was never made.

the entire spirit and presentation of CC is profoundly different

Yes, that's why I feel the way I do about CC.  I wouldn't have minded differences in general, but it's the fact that the entire spirit was different that made me cold to it.

And hopefully people don't get upset at us for what we're saying here.  We're not trying to bash Chrono Cross.  It sounds like we both just really liked the world and people we experienced in Chrono Trigger, and are puzzled by the sequel seemingly going out of its way to tear up that experience.  So hopefully people grasp that - it's only that aspect of CC that we are criticizing, with legitimate reason.  We're not attacking the game as a whole.

[xcalibur]

the entire spirit and presentation of CC is profoundly different

Yes, that's why I feel the way I do about CC.  I wouldn't have minded differences in general, but it's the fact that the entire spirit was different that made me cold to it.

Indeed. Chrono Trigger was upbeat and fun-loving with a serious core. It mixed humor and philosophy. Chrono Cross, on the other hand, was strange, inscrutable, and melancholy.

And hopefully people don't get upset at us for what we're saying here.  We're not trying to bash Chrono Cross.  It sounds like we both just really liked the world and people we experienced in Chrono Trigger, and are puzzled by the sequel seemingly going out of its way to tear up that experience.  So hopefully people grasp that - it's only that aspect of CC that we are criticizing, with legitimate reason.  We're not attacking the game as a whole.

indeed. CC was a pretty good RPG, but it didn't fit with CT for many reasons.

[Satoh]

The interesting thing about Chrono Cross and Chrono Trigger is that neither is really as solid as the fanbase seems to portray them.

Cross was obviously inscrutable and in some places downright incomprehensible to the core... but one of the things people tend to overlook is how much in Trigger makes no sense or outright defies logic... We have an entire forum dedicated to unraveling the mysteries and fallacies put forth by it.

Time Traveler's Immunity... Time Bastard... generally the entire plot mechanic of Trigger was, while fantastic and entertaining, very very flawed.

I'd say that if you don't count the fact that Cross is a sequel, both games have an equal quantity or flaws.

I remember I bought Cross because it was related to Trigger... I had a bad copy in which the discs were (visibly) not created properly and the videos all skipped to nigh incompletable levels.
I recall trying my hardest to ignore the fact that I couldn't understand the plot due to none of the videos being watchable, or in most cases, crashing the game outright. Much as I tried to enjoy it.. I sold it a few days later and bought something else I also didn't really enjoy...

But then... years later... even with a longstanding grudge against the game for it's impossible-to-play-ness... I recalled all the events I managed to complete... and I had to track down a copy... I realized, after at least 6 years, that I genuinely loved that game.

Anyway, back to my point... or rather on to a new one: Chrono Cross gets a few points taken off simply by being related to Chrono Trigger.

Because it is the sequel of a truly great game, loved by many, people expect certain things from it... Things that it never set out to deliver in the first place, because it is, in fact, not Chrono Trigger 2... It is Chrono Cross. In essence, it is only marginally more related to its predecessor than Xenosaga is related to Xenogears.

They are two different games that are meant to take place in a similar setting. Cross is the Star Ocean 2/3 to Trigger's Star Ocean: Fantastic Space Odyssey... It's Lufia III vs Lufia I/II...

It's the chess playing son of the basketball legend... They both have their thing... They are both equally good and equally bad... but they are different things in the end.


Moreover, Cross loses points for being a sequel in general. In the majority of cases, a sequel is seen as inferior to the original. Aliens can never Replace Alien, nor can Alien3 replace Aliens...

And lets face it, AVP2 was miserable.

We also must consider that as time passes, the developers, much like us, form new or different opinions about where the story should be going, has gone, how it should be interpreted, and what it was really about... This is the reason that presidents and head developers leave their companies to start new ones, with related goals... Their opinions start to differ from the rest of the fold.

Basically what I'm saying is this:
The reason Cross so often doesn't compare to Trigger, is because they can't be compared properly... My apple is red, sweet, and shiny while yours is tart, dimpled, and orange... the reason being your apple is an orange of course. They're both fruit, they both come from the same setting, orchards, but their purpose is different.

Apes and humans share 99% of our DNA... we're nothing alike... mice share about 75% of our DNA... and bananas around 50%... None of us are direct sequels to any of them. We are each our own organism, regardless of how closely related we may be, even if we are sequels of a kind...

Square and Nintendo are both game companies founded by people with common ancestry... neither of them is like the haberdashery founded by one of those common ancestors... It isn't a fair comparison.

And also I like oblique analogies.

I can say though, that I've not seen any direct comments about the character development, the plot, etc., that are completely unfounded. I could say though, that even with the amount of characterization they got, Trigger's characters were still pretty undeveloped. Crono has no thoughts of his own, Lucca is pretty one dimensional, Marle... well Marle is Lucca but softer and in some sort of puffy underwear, Glenn has no apparent life whatsoever, Robo is literally lifeless, Ayla was there to look good and name things... badly... and even Magus who was the centermost character in the game, is a complete mystery really.

The Chrono cast aside from those in Radical Dreamers, are nothing more than the sum of their tropes. I could argue that anyway.

The problem with character development is that you can only trust what the developers tell you directly... anything left to interpretation is inherently questionable in the veracity column.

For instance, the greedy mayor... As a child I thought he was pretty generous, giving out cash for something as simple as acting a little silly and clucking like a chicken. Now, older, I see him as a condescending bastard. Case in point that not only do people's opinions and perceptions change over time, but also that people can both infer things that may or may not have ever been implied... and thus, relying on any supposed implications as true development, can lead to faulty conclusions.

For instance, I ask you: Does Serge actually have a relationship with Leena? Does he have one with Kid? One of these is stated as true, the other is heavily implied... and neither can really be definitely answered.

Was the end of Chrono Trigger the end of time travel for the main cast? All evidence implies it wasn't... but if you think about it, logically, continuing to screw around with time, even once there's no imminent threat of catastrophe...seems like a really bad idea. Ok, so they rescue Crono's cats and Mom... but after that, why risk all of the future and past just to hang out a little? What would they even do? We don't know this because we don't know what is a -normal- day for anyone in CT... We at least get a glimpse of it in CC in the form of Serge.

So on that level, we actually know more about Serge than Crono.

[xcalibur]

but one of the things people tend to overlook is how much in Trigger makes no sense or outright defies logic... We have an entire forum dedicated to unraveling the mysteries and fallacies put forth by it.

Time Traveler's Immunity... Time Bastard... generally the entire plot mechanic of Trigger was, while fantastic and entertaining, very very flawed.

so you're saying that using the fantastic device of Time Travel is a major plot flaw? really?

the only serious flaw I can think of offhand is the Marle Paradox, which I believe was a definite development oversight. other than that, CT is an imperfect but extremely good game.

I can say though, that I've not seen any direct comments about the character development, the plot, etc., that are completely unfounded. I could say though, that even with the amount of characterization they got, Trigger's characters were still pretty undeveloped. Crono has no thoughts of his own, Lucca is pretty one dimensional, Marle... well Marle is Lucca but softer and in some sort of puffy underwear, Glenn has no apparent life whatsoever, Robo is literally lifeless, Ayla was there to look good and name things... badly... and even Magus who was the centermost character in the game, is a complete mystery really.

The Chrono cast aside from those in Radical Dreamers, are nothing more than the sum of their tropes. I could argue that anyway.

lol what are you smoking? sounds like you're just outright bashing CT without any factual basis.

The problem with character development is that you can only trust what the developers tell you directly... anything left to interpretation is inherently questionable in the veracity column.

yes, but sometimes it's more interesting for some avenues of the plot to be left open to interpretation, rather than explicitly stated (as long as this doesn't obscure the story).

Was the end of Chrono Trigger the end of time travel for the main cast? All evidence implies it wasn't... but if you think about it, logically, continuing to screw around with time, even once there's no imminent threat of catastrophe...seems like a really bad idea. Ok, so they rescue Crono's cats and Mom... but after that, why risk all of the future and past just to hang out a little? What would they even do? We don't know this because we don't know what is a -normal- day for anyone in CT...

okay, but this is a minor quibble.

The rest of your post I mostly agree with, but I addressed the points where you went wildly off-base.

[xcalibur]

I had thought up a scenario that he teamed up with a Yakra plot to try and create dissension in Guardia.

also, I could definitely see this working well.

[Satoh]

Most of my post, in regards to CT is merely one point of view, and not necessarily my own at that. I think somewhere along the line I may also have gotten distracted and gone on a few senseless tangents, I admit that, it happens to me often.

The point was attempting to get across was that CT and CC are not directly related, and most people expect them to be. I suppose something similar must have happened when Final Fantasy II was released... but due to the large number of games between then and now, no one expects an FF to be related to another FF... However, this is a good basis to consider for the Chrono series, being that it and FF are both Square products...(However, and unfortunately, any new Chrono game is likely to be a Squenix product instead...)

My point about CT's time travel mechanic is not that it is a bad thing, but rather that it has its flaws.

My point about CT's characters is that we only really ever get to know one or two things about them, despite being superiorly developed in comparison to CC... We know that want to save the future... we know Magus has a sister complex... and well... despite seeing a bit of their pasts, we don't really see any immediate effects of how much of their known history affects them. Glenn is a frog, and was a squire once... We don't know how he gets along with Magus, his stated mortal enemy, once the option to recruit him is chosen. We only see a hint that Lucca cares about her mother's legs, in the scene leading up to attempting to make them not get damaged...

What I'm getting at, is that we don't know enough to really gauge how the characters would react to a situation that wasn't presented in the game already... There's some development, we could toss out a guess at a reaction... but we don't really know much about them beyond that... That's one argument anyway.

In relation to that, one could say we know Fargo pretty well, as both Fargo's seem to resonate the same thoughts even if they act on them completely oppositely.

My purpose isn't to bash CT... but rather to throw into question the things that we take for granted about it.

Devil's advocate essentially. The root of it is, both games are excellent, and both are horribly flawed...but-- depending on which school we come from, we each ignore the flaws in the game we prefer, because we prefer it... or probably more accurately, we see the flaws in the game we like less, as being much more prominent flaws.

A corollary of this concept is the fact that you cannot compare the flaws in the games accurately, for the same reason you cannot compare the games themselves accurately: the flaws, like the games they are from, are different, and as there is no system of empirical data measurement for "flaws" one cannot define the amount of influence one flaw has over its game to another.

As for continuation of time travel... It's hardly a minor quibble in my opinion... it changes the entire ending of the game if you change whether they did or did not continue traveling through time.

For instance, you say the stopped messing with time, thus making it much safer since they have less chance of breaking everything... It makes the ending bittersweet as they made these companions they will never see again... assuming we believe they got along...(they never truly state their feelings about each other aside from a few instances like resurrecting Crono, and Ayla stating she likes them when they first meet... we merely assume they all like each other because we are never given a hint that they don't)

Now, on the other side of things, they continue traveling through time, putting the world in untold amounts of possible jeopardy, but they get to hang out with their battle comrades... Imagine the timeline contamination that is possible... for instance, the McFly paradigm... If someone accidentally says the wrong thing to the wrong person, anywhere from 1 to billions of people could cease to exist. For instance, by simply meeting with Ayla in the past, and accidentally dissuading two people from getting married, or simply from noticing each other for the first time in the right way, an entire chunk of the human population could cease to exist and be replaced by someone else entirely, and they'd have no idea how to fix it, if it was even possible.

One accidental left turn could literally decimate the population... We see similar effects in the Reptite ending...

I will grant that I got massively distracted and a bit overzealous in my previous comments... and maybe even here too, it happens, but my root point is that both games have flaws, and yet I like them both equally, for different reasons... and I feel that the reason people like one more than the other stems from the misunderstanding that a sequel should be directly related.

In fact, in the cases I can think of, I've seen many more successful sequels that were only partially related, than I have see direct sequels, with one rule of exception:
If the sequel was originally part of a single story and the piece was broken up into 'chapters.'

I suppose I could say that some of the flaws in the Chrono series are actually the things that make it so great.
No really. If not for the Marle paradox, the Lavos' shell paradox, the Black Omen... and so on... Would we even have a compendium dedicated to exploring these things, trying to make sense of them, and in fact, enriching the games beyond their official stature through the use of fanon?

Just because I say they are flawed, does not mean I dislike them in any capacity. Perfection, at least as far as human beings can comprehend it, is pretty boring. Once you iron out all the flaws, there is no room for improvement, so why concentrate on it anymore?

Some of the flaws between these two games -define- the games. For instance I could say that Chrono Cross's multitude of characters, while slightly less defined individually, were better than Chrono Trigger's cast, because there were characters I was stuck with in Trigger and didn't have much choice of alternatives. In Cross I certainly have plenty of alternatives, and a fair few of them do in fact get some development.

I wouldn't claim that, as I generally made do pretty well with Ayla Magus and Crono... Magus being a filler... What I say here doesn't reflect me, but merely a manufactured point of view. My actual point of view is pretty boring in that both games fine to me and neither has any edge over the other.

And again, yes, I do go off on tangents.

[utunnels]

Well whether you think CT has as many plot holes depends on how you accept the story. Yes, it has time travel, but after all it is a video game which doesn't require strong support of theories, a fantasy game sheathed by the popular time travel plot. This is quite different from hard SF. We have heard too many story about 'change the past and you change the future', even a child won't have real problem understanding that. We discuss the plot holes, only when we have finished the game (probably many times) and want to dig up all its potential. I bet 90% of the theories are put together by fans. How many of you really think that much when playing the game?

However, CC is a bit different I guess, you just can't get rid of theories easily, because: 1) at the beginning of the game everything makes so less sense 2) towards the middle point of the game, too many informations flow in.

[Rocky]

The interesting thing about Chrono Cross and Chrono Trigger is that neither is really as solid as the fanbase seems to portray them.

Well, how good or solid something is is subjective.  One person may think either CT or CC is not as good as the fanbase as a whole says, but another may think either game is better than the fanbase makes it out to be.  Whether it's one person, or an entire fanbase, it's just a matter of opinion.  Nothing's definitive.

Cross was obviously inscrutable and in some places downright incomprehensible to the core... but one of the things people tend to overlook is how much in Trigger makes no sense or outright defies logic...

That's a pretty accurate assessment, though a bit incomplete.  A good way to show this is by using two math equations.  Let's say "Chrono Trigger Flawed Logic A" is represented by the equation 2+2=5 and "Chrono Cross Incomprehension A" is represented by the equation ((67-103)/9-(8*2.5-26))+(56^4/2458624*(1/2))=8.09*(10^0)-3.09.  (Don't waste valuable brain cells on that one.)  If I did that right, it comes out to 2+2=5.

The point I'm making is that of course Chrono Trigger has illogical elements, like the Marle paradox.  But I'm sorry, ANY sci-fi story involving time travel or dimension hopping will without a doubt include some comically impossible plot elements.  Back to the Future is one of the most classic movies ever, and it too has paradoxes.  So how about the very cornerstone of Chrono Cross's chain of events - Melchior?  His Time Crash is concocted with the somehow pre-determined knowledge that Lavos - a monstrous alien - and Earth - a planet - will each draw an entire civilization (from two different dimensions) into the past.  A human knowing what an alien and a planet will do.  You described things in CT as making no sense, and defying logic.  I guess our brains work differently, because that core element of Cross's story makes no sense and defies logic to me - but on a FAR more grandiose scale than CT's time-traveling commonplace grandfather paradox.  While the Melchior thing is not a proven paradox, it makes just as little sense.  The difference is that Cross conceals it's own 2+2=5 with an elaborate and complicated formula that, if nothing else, discourages players from spending time trying to figure it out.

For me, seeing that a flaw exists is a shame, yes.  But if I can at least grasp the flaw, I can forgive it - it is science-fiction, after all.  Whereas if I can't even wrap my head around something, because it's a riddle wrapped in an enigma wrapped in a puzzle... then it may well be that it's not a flaw in the end - but if can't ever understand it, how is that any better?  For me, understanding a flaw is far less frustrating than failing to understand something that may or may not be flawed.

Because it is the sequel of a truly great game, loved by many, people expect certain things from it... Things that it never set out to deliver in the first place, because it is, in fact, not Chrono Trigger 2... It is Chrono Cross.

It's the chess playing son of the basketball legend...

Now, this is where I'm kind of puzzled.  First off, I've already stated that I - and many others - did NOT necessarily need a Chrono Trigger 2.  Could've been different characters, a different situation, whatever.  But if the game also feels completely different, if you can't really even recognize anything similar, then you've really watered down the definition of "sequel".  Chess and basketball - a good comparison, but more for what I'm saying.  No one here is saying that either Chrono game is factually better than the other - just as no one can factually say that either chess or basketball is better than the other.  What we're trying to say is that if two things are THAT different, how can they be linked to each other?  If you play chess and you play basketball, it's because you like chess... and you like basketball.  Separately.  You won't like chess because you like basketball, or vice versa.  Similarly, you won't like Super Mario Galaxy because you like Metroid Prime - they're as different as night and day.  So you'll never see a sequel in either series in the style of the other series' games.  To me, and many, CT and CC were also as different as night and day, yet they ARE linked together - and it baffles us.  There have been 16 Zelda games.  Zelda II really stood out as starkly different.  You could argue that for some of the newer DS games as well, but for the most part, Zelda games really do share the generally same feel.  That's how sequels are usually handled.  The majority of fans enjoy that. That is not how the one sequel in this series was handled.  They didn't break any rules.  But it was still extremely unusual, and caused much disillusionment.

I could say though, that even with the amount of characterization they got, Trigger's characters were still pretty undeveloped. Crono has no thoughts of his own, Lucca is pretty one dimensional, Marle... well Marle is Lucca but softer and in some sort of puffy underwear, Glenn has no apparent life whatsoever, Robo is literally lifeless, Ayla was there to look good and name things... badly... and even Magus who was the centermost character in the game, is a complete mystery really.

ROCKY ANGRY!

No, I'm good.  The problem here is, don't confuse not liking the characters with them not having any characterization.  If you chose not to care about it, fine - it doesn't mean it wasn't there.  Here's a link to a GameFAQs topic from several months back.  I have two posts on this page (user name Rocky2418), explaining in detail the things I noticed and liked about all 7 characters:

http://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/563538-chrono-trigger/61991062?page=1

I just read through it myself.  The last thing I wrote reminded me of something.  I basically wrote that these characters seemed like they lived very lonely lives, before they came together as they did.  It reminded me of the characters on Lost, which I've been watching through again.

Was the end of Chrono Trigger the end of time travel for the main cast? All evidence implies it wasn't...

Uh... did we play the same game?  There are two "canon" endings.  In one, the heroes fly the Epoch into Lavos to break through the shell and get to the core.  So the Epoch is destroyed.  After they say their goodbyes, the time gates close - for good.  Time travel is no longer possible for them.  Now, in the other ending, where you DON'T fly the Epoch into Lavos, I'll let the game's own script handle this one.  After Marle and Lucca say they feel that the Entity is finally at rest:

Marle: "Time travel...how exhausting!"
Lucca: "We should dismantle the Epoch. It's job is finished."

It's at this point that Crono's mom wanders into the gate, and the trio has to use the Epoch one more time, to save her.  While looking for her, they pass through each era, as we see.  But the game actually implies that they would dismantle the machine after rescuing her - even if we don't definitively know.  Because the other ending DOES confirm the end of time travel, and this one tells us that it's what they intend to do ASAP.

but if you think about it, logically, continuing to screw around with time, even once there's no imminent threat of catastrophe...seems like a really bad idea.

So that doesn't apply to the Trigger crew, but it does lead nicely back to Melchior.  He is at least as smart as Lucca and just as altruistic (at least as depicted in CT).  Why would HE continue to screw around with time, with, as yet, no knowledge of any new catastrophe?  (Because I believe he only learned of Schala and the TD after starting up at least some form of time research/meddling.  As already stated, it's fair to say that the research may not have been dangerous in itself - but since we're told virtually nothing concrete, it leaves me wondering about Melchior's actions, at the very least.)

The last thing I'll say is that not everyone just ignores the flaws of the game they like more.  I have stated many things I like in CC, and have also acknowledged that CT is far from perfect.  The reason Trigger is my favorite game isn't because I think it has less flaws.  Rather, it's because the things that are most important to ME were present in CT, and were not in CC.  (Lots of face time with a smaller group of characters, and an easy-to-grasp story.)  That's all I'm saying.  We all like different things.  CT was packed with the things I loved, and CC wasn't.  Everyone has their own likes and dislikes.

[Satoh]

CT was packed with the things I loved, and CC wasn't.  Everyone has their own likes and dislikes.

Yes, the more I think about what I've been trying to get across, the more hamfisted I seem to be getting. That's essentially what my point has been, and by this moment, I realize my entire post was a wasted effort on an already accepted point.

Though I have to disagree with you saying the Zelda games have a similar feel. To me they're far too different for me to enjoy them each as sequels... Odd as that may sound. I can't put it into words, but the difference between any two Zelda games is much greater to me than the difference between the Chrono games.

But basically I've just written a 3 page dissertation on how poorly I articulate.