Wanted to share how I feel about Chrono Cross, and why.

[Rocky]

About your reaction to Zelda games - fair enough.  Just further proof that we all have unique experiences and viewpoints.  To me, it feels like Nintendo is more inclined to stick to one general formula and build off that in different ways.  While, as you said, Square Enix likes to throw everything out the window and start from scratch.

So take Wind Waker, and then Twilight Princess.  Wind Waker is more cheerful, while TP is darker.  WW has cell-shading, TP went back to the old way of progressive graphics.  Those are big differences, to be sure.  But then there's the key formula - puzzle-solving dungeons, typical battles, using newly acquired items on the bosses, a legend involving the Triforce in some way, and a moderate but not elaborate story.  All that was in both games.  And the NPC's were not all that different in terms of the content and amount of dialogue.  I mention that because of the stark difference in NPC's in the Chrono games.  In one, they spoke rather simply and briefly.  In the other, a remarkable amount share their extensive philosophical musings, mystic and far out, like the style of the game's ending soliloquy.

So, merely from my standpoint, that made the game world seem completely foreign to CT, a drastic change that (along with such huge things as simple vs. incredibly complicated plot and 7 vs. 44 characters) dwarfed any difference between WW and TP.  For me, WW->TP feels like how a sequel to CT could've been made, that wasn't Chrono Trigger 2, but also wasn't as different as chess and basketball.  Still, just my take on things.

But yeah, it makes sense that the two of us see it differently - if we each have our own most important game elements, then we'll affected by different sorts of changes in different ways.  To each his own...

[Lennis]

For all of the reasons listed here, I am of the opinion that the entire mythos needs to be rewritten as a comprehensive whole with fully fleshed-out characters and relationships.  It can be done.  All of the building blocks are there, both in canon and in fan-created content.  Combining those two things is key.  Canon alone doesn't explain things clearly enough to be a solid foundation for something new.

Yet only 5 years later, Porre becomes a juggernaut and wipes out Guardia? You could argue that Dalton played a role in that, but it's still a stretch. and Dalton was always a puffed-up assclown, and never really meant to be taken seriously as a villain. Which is why it bothers me when he's tasked with being a more legitimate adversary - it doesn't really fit his character.

On the subject of Dalton, remember that Kefka (from Final Fantasy VI) was also a "puffed-up assclown" and ended up being the game's titular villain.  Kato might have had a similar idea in mind for Chrono.  While I don't envision Dalton reaching the heights of godhood Kefka did, the way in which they achieve power would be similar - in that they don't get it by being better than everyone else but being in the right place at the right time, and having the ruthless ambition to take advantage of an unexpected opportunity.

[Satoh]

Kefka succeeded in becoming important though... He had screentime... He had a final showdown...

Dalton? Dalton has a 15 second video clip and we only know it's him because of an interview after the fact.

Dalton isn't even the assklown kefka was... he's the asshat being worn by the assklown.

[Rocky]

Canon alone doesn't explain things clearly enough to be a solid foundation for something new.

Heck, I don't think canon alone explains what we currently have clearly enough - not by a long shot.  And yet, I'm a stickler for canon.  Kato owns the story - I detest what he chose to do with it, but it is all I feel I should go by.  So, for instance, I watched through all 90+ YouTube segments of Crimson Echoes.  I loved it WAY more than Chrono Cross, but - unless it's purchased and officially used - it's not really a part of the Chrono tapestry.  That's just me, though.

Dalton isn't even the assklown kefka was... he's the asshat being worn by the assklown.

That was pure awesome.  And I agree - the new Dalton part in the DS version was really just an afterthought - they didn't have many sleepless nights working on that one...

[utunnels]

 I just wonder, why Dalton (or someone alike) is not mentioned in Chrono Cross.
Or perhaps the CTDS idea is new, relatively.

[Rocky]

Yeah, pretty much - it was just retconned in.  They didn't decide on Dalton's grandiose role until sometime in the 8 years between CC's release and that of CT DS.

[xcalibur]

Satoh, I didn't mean to be excessive in my reply. I was just reacting to your admitted ham-fistedness.

Rocky addressed alot of what I was going to say. I'll add that the CT cast characterization may not have been to the extent of a novel, but it was definitely there, as I could argue. and it served well enough for the medium of a video game.

Yet only 5 years later, Porre becomes a juggernaut and wipes out Guardia? You could argue that Dalton played a role in that, but it's still a stretch. and Dalton was always a puffed-up assclown, and never really meant to be taken seriously as a villain. Which is why it bothers me when he's tasked with being a more legitimate adversary - it doesn't really fit his character.

On the subject of Dalton, remember that Kefka (from Final Fantasy VI) was also a "puffed-up assclown" and ended up being the game's titular villain.  Kato might have had a similar idea in mind for Chrono.  While I don't envision Dalton reaching the heights of godhood Kefka did, the way in which they achieve power would be similar - in that they don't get it by being better than everyone else but being in the right place at the right time, and having the ruthless ambition to take advantage of an unexpected opportunity.

maybe, but Kefka was always a ruthless nutcase, even before he became powerful. he might've been a jester and a lackey at first, but he wasn't a joke. you were always more inclined to be disconcerted by him than to laugh. Dalton, on the other hand...

Dalton isn't even the assklown kefka was... he's the asshat being worn by the assklown.

LOL, exactly. that sums it up. Dalton is a fumbler who has some power, but will inevitably screw up. that's why him teaming up with Yakra would be a viable story arc - Daltons magic and Yakras cunning could be troublesome if combined.

[Satoh]

Satoh, I didn't mean to be excessive in my reply. I was just reacting to your admitted ham-fistedness.

No harm done. I simply realized I wasn't getting my point across the way it was in my head, no matter how much dirt I shoveled. I wasn't going to reach the surface by digging more.

maybe, but Kefka was always a ruthless nutcase, even before he became powerful. he might've been a jester and a lackey at first, but he wasn't a joke. you were always more inclined to be disconcerted by him than to laugh. Dalton, on the other hand...

Interestingly enough, I didn't even realize Kefka was a jester until my third playthrough of the game. He was that evil. I always just assumed he was a poor dresser.

Likewise I didn't realize how high up Dalton actually is until a lot of thought on 12,000 B.C in general. He's just that foolhardy.

[Chrono_Fusion]

I just could not get into it, the only character I really liked was Kid and Guile. The story was kind of draggy and I liked how Triggers battles initiated without the cliche blurry screen over the FF battle sequence. The only thing exciting about the game was the reference to previous games. I got maybe half way or more through the first disc, stopped playing and sold it for a seinfeld DVD set. It wasnt a bad game, it just wasnt my thing. I may try and play it again, but I doubt it. Id rather replay CT

[chi_z]

bad move bro, missed out on sea of eden, terra tower, reviving marbule, and more.

[Rocky]

Well, to be fair, a bad move for one might not be bad for another.  I could say that the 2001 World Series was one of the most exciting things to watch ever - but I'd say it with the given assumption that you probably need to like baseball to find it exciting.

He himself said:

It wasnt a bad game, it just wasnt my thing.

We all have our own thing...

[Lennis]

LOL, exactly. that sums it up. Dalton is a fumbler who has some power, but will inevitably screw up. that's why him teaming up with Yakra would be a viable story arc - Daltons magic and Yakras cunning could be troublesome if combined.

Funny you should mention that.  Not to give too much away, but that is just what I have outlined for the fourth book in my novel series.  They are not initially on the same side, but when one becomes aware of the other, Dalton gains a power greater than he had ever dreamed.  (And yet still manages to screw it up.  There's something to be said about snatching defeat from the jaws of victory.)

Likewise I didn't realize how high up Dalton actually is until a lot of thought on 12,000 B.C in general. He's just that foolhardy.

In my version of events, Dalton is Empress Samele's Minister of Security, but prefers the title of General.  His full name is General Leonidas Dalton, and he achieved his status mostly from being a distant cousin to the late Emperor Alphard.  (I take no credit for "Leonidas".  That was someone else's idea, and I thought the name fit him perfectly.  I also don't know who came up with the name "Samele" for Queen Zeal.  Giving her the title of Empress was my idea.  I portray Zeal as an empire rather than a kingdom to help differentiate it from Guardia.)  He has more ambition than actual ability, something which becomes quite apparent when Crono stands up to him for the first time and Dalton foolishly challenges him to a duel.  (Ever wonder where he got the eye patch?)  That's not the last we see of him, of course.  Canon did a lousy job of completing his character and giving him closure, so I mean to establish in no uncertain terms what happens to him and how he is linked to the backstory of Chrono Cross.

[Grace Ashtear]

Now my opinion, or lack thereof... Warning, Mockingjay spoilers!
I have never played Chrono Cross, but I believe I have heard enough so that I never will. My main concern is the fates of the characters from Trigger. I mean: think of it this way. You finish Trigger, and you feel really good about all the characters. As for myself, it feels like I actually feel for all of them. I was so happy when I found out Crono and Marle got married! Now I hoped that Lucca would find a love. Then I hear a sequel, which overjoyed me. I just have this thing about peoples futures and their families, etc. Then I hear, Guardia falls? All of the previous characters, (possibly) killed? It hurts, really hurts. Is this what the canonical story line is supposed to be? In fact, I almost lost my total interest in Chrono things altogether when I hear Lucca gets murdered. For those who have read it: it feels similar to how Mockingjay in the Hunger Games makes you feel, though possibly worse. You know, "Oh, you really do love these characters? It would rip out your heart to see them die? Well too bad!" *slaughtered Finnick, Prim, etc.* I just can't accept Cross or Radical Dreamers as a canonical line if that's the way it will be. If any, no, ALL of this is even plausibly fixed in the end, Please do not hesitate to tell me, spoilers and all. Like I said, more likely then not I am never playing Cross. I joined here because I see Trigger as one of the best RPGs ever, ruling side by side with Earthbound IMO.
Kudos if you decided to read the while thing. I probably sound like I'm taking the whole thing personally, but I'll risk that to be heard.
P.S. Forgive any possible grammar errors. My Android's autocorrect likes to screw up on me a lot...

[Mr Bekkler]

Well, frankly, I think that's why we all want a new game in the series. After getting through Cross, or really just after resurrecting you know who in Trigger, it's plain to see that a common theme in the Chrono series is nothing is too far gone to be saved.

Though ironically, the real life company Square Enix might just BE too far gone to be saved.

Off-topic: my god that is an annoyingly gigantic signature image.

[Grace Ashtear]

Ah, so I'm not as different in opinions as I thought I was. Maybe I just reitterated Rocky's opinions in different wording. I understand if a lot of people here really like Cross, but for me it is disappointing in several ways as a sequel to Trigger.
Off-topic: Yeah, I'm trying out the signature image for a little since someone on another board had it as his. If it's too big and annoying, I'll change it.
Edit: I was able to resize it. Hopefully better now?