Wanted to share how I feel about Chrono Cross, and why.

[Rocky]

I have never played Chrono Cross, but I believe I have heard enough so that I never will.  My main concern is the fates of the characters from Trigger. ... I just have this thing about peoples futures and their families, etc.

I well understand that decision.  I wish I could have known ahead of time, so that I could've made an informed choice.  Though my wish isn't so much that I hadn't played it, but rather that it wasn't made (at least not like that).  Anyway, don't let anyone make you feel bad for not giving it a shot.  They likely won't fully grasp just how disheartening the fates of the CT team and Guardia are to people like us.  There is good in Chrono Cross.  But the things that - to me - are negative far outweigh the good.  The futures of these characters that I care about are so very important to me as well.

Well, frankly, I think that's why we all want a new game in the series. After getting through Cross, or really just after resurrecting you know who in Trigger, it's plain to see that a common theme in the Chrono series is nothing is too far gone to be saved.

Well, in truth, a lot of people want a 3rd game because they love the direction taken by Cross.  The creators of this site are among them.  It's just people like you, me, and Grace that desire the events of CC to be undone.

But that's a great thought about nothing being too far gone to be saved - that it's a kind of running theme in the series.  I had noticed that about the main characters from both games, mainly the "couples".  Marle is erased from history for a brief time, she returns after you change history, and she recounts a lonely place she went to while she was gone.  Crono is done away with, and is resurrected after much effort.  Kid is stabbed in the gut by Lynx, but shows up very much alive later - the "Lucca" on the beach even states that her pendant would keep her safe by rewinding time a little if anything should happen to her.  And Serge loses himself, his being, as he switches bodies with Lynx - a sort of death - and goes to the limbo-like place between dimensions, before finding his way home.  (A part of the game that I thought was pretty powerful.)

That's one feature that I really enjoyed about CC, and a way that it felt somewhat similar to Trigger.  That said, Chrono Cross wove layers upon layers upon layers of logic-defying story.  I believe it went past the point of no return.  The Chrono world was changed, and I think changed for good.  So it goes...

[Kodokami]

Just curious: How many here started with Cross and then moved to Trigger? For those who have, how do you feel about the sequel?

[Mr Bekkler]

Just  wanted to clarify that I don't necessarily want the events of CC to be undone so much as I want a new entry in the franchise that brings back at least a few characters from each game, fills the really big plot gaps, and wraps everything up as a solid conclusion at least to the story, if not the world of Chrono.

Though being realistic, that wouldn't happen, and CC would probably be treated by this new entry the same way CC treated CT, and it would most likely be all new and ask more unanswered questions and only be tangentially connected to the Chrono games that came prior. It would not be CT2 or CC2 in any recognizable way.

And you know what? I wouldn't even have a problem with that.

[Lennis]

Frankly, I don't think canon Chrono is salvageable at this point.  If the series was conceived from the start with a beginning, middle, and end, things would be much more solid.  Instead we got the series in increments years apart, and it's clear that Kato or others had a change of heart of where the series should go in the interval after CT.  Hence, Chrono Cross and CTDS.  Taken as a whole, the series is just a disjointed mess with little or no closure.  Whatever happened to Crono and Marle?  How can you leave open the question of such important protagonists?   It would be like writing Lord of the Rings with no mention of Bilbo Baggins from The Hobbit.  Trying to complete the story with the parts we already have would just result in more confusion and create more questions than answers, as Bekkler said.  Just as well we don't have Chrono Break.

That's why I decided to wipe the slate clean with my novel project and restart the story from the beginning.  Remaking Chrono is really the only way forward, no matter what form it takes.

[Grace Ashtear]

I couldn't have said it better myself. That makes a lot of sense: The storyline connecting them is completely broken and you can't really salvage a canon storyline. I guess the only consolation is that it opens up several different interpretations by fans, but that probably isn't saying much.

[Rocky]

Just wanted to clarify that I don't necessarily want the events of CC to be undone

Oh, my mistake.  Well, it's how I feel anyway.

Frankly, I don't think canon Chrono is salvageable at this point.  If the series was conceived from the start with a beginning, middle, and end, things would be much more solid.  Instead we got the series in increments years apart, and it's clear that Kato or others had a change of heart of where the series should go in the interval after CT.  Hence, Chrono Cross and CTDS.  Taken as a whole, the series is just a disjointed mess with little or no closure.  Whatever happened to Crono and Marle?  How can you leave open the question of such important protagonists?   It would be like writing Lord of the Rings with no mention of Bilbo Baggins from The Hobbit.  Trying to complete the story with the parts we already have would just result in more confusion and create more questions than answers, as Bekkler said.  Just as well we don't have Chrono Break.

I wanted to quote all that because I think I agree with all of it.  It really does seem a mess, disjointed by a different Kato (solo instead of part of the Dream Team) who seemed to abandon the feel and the beloved facets of the first game.  And of course, I too can't believe they just left the futures of Crono and Marle unanswered.  There's really no way to resolve so much uncertainty and so many complications.

[Crono666]

Schala prominently, since she was a major loose end in CT. I'm not sure where I'd go with that yet, but there are many possibilities.

Am I the only person who never saw Schala as a loose end when Chrono Trigger first came out? I always just assumed that she died during the Ocean Palace Incident. She used a lot of energy to power the Mammoth Machine and teleport Crono's friends out of the Ocean Palace. So it really wouldn't have been hard to believe that she pushed herself too much and died.

 

[Rocky]

Am I the only person who never saw Schala as a loose end when Chrono Trigger first came out?

No, you are definitely not.  I've stated this myself, numerous times.  Here's one instance, quoted from a GameFAQs topic:

As for Schala - as I said, I had no unanswered questions. After the Ocean Palace disaster, one of your characters asks the old man what happened to her, and he says "No one has seen her since..." Most times, that's the optimistic way of saying that the person is probably dead - likely, in this case, given that she was left down on the floor in a crumbling palace, alone, without any more power (or will) with which to save herself. I was left with the impression that she selflessly sacrificed her own life to save those of the heroes - happens in video game or movie plots all the time. Even at the end of the game, when Magus is asked if he is going to search for Schala... Never mind the fact that he doesn't reply and so doesn't confirm this - even if that is his intention, that STILL doesn't mean she's still alive. Didn't Marle stubbornly keep fighting to find Crono, even though he truly was dead? I just saw Magus's similar relentlessness and thought "Good for him!" Still wasn't a loose end, not from what I'd seen.

The link to that page of that topic is here, if you want to read the surrounding context: http://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/563538-chrono-trigger/62557679?page=1

Anyway, yeah, in all the times I played through CT - prior to the release of CC - I honestly never once thought of Schala as a loose end.  I was under the impression that she'd sacrificed herself to save the heroes - that explanation was simple and made the most sense to me.  Good to know someone else thought so too.

[Mr Bekkler]

I felt the same way, Crono666.

The KISS method says she died. The Cross plot says she lived for thousands of years, transcended into a new plane of existence, got the hots for a dying baby, fused with Lavos (also thought dead), and cloned herself. Not to mention having the ability to send said clone through time without a Gate.

I guess she's handling her death better than some?

[Rocky]

lol

Yeah, the two explanations are a bit stark in contrast.  Applying Occam's razor, I thought it was reasonable to assume she died.

[Grace Ashtear]

The KISS method says she died. The Cross plot says she lived for thousands of years, transcended into a new plane of existence, got the hots for a dying baby, fused with Lavos (also thought dead), and cloned herself. Not to mention having the ability to send said clone through time without a Gate.

| | | | |
| | | | |
v v v v v

[Mr Bekkler]

Great Scott

I hope I didn't spoil it, and I was exaggerating on some counts, but that's the way they tackled her character arc for Cross in a nutshell. Been that way for twelve years.


However, part of the ending of Cross is a merging of timelines to create an "ideal" timeline. This has been the source of much debate among fans, because what constitutes "ideal" exactly? If it's any consolation, completing Cross may include indirectly saving Crono&Co. However, this is just speculation, and if they are saved, it is very indirect and never referenced in the game. I prefer to think they never died, but have been on a simultaneous adventure we haven't been able to see yet. I suspect that was the plan when Cross was released, if it got popular enough they probably would have made Chrono Break and some alternate timeline spinoffs maybe. Again, though, totally just fan speculation.

(And that's where the fans come in to create the content necessary to fill those holes.)

[Crono666]

One more thing, Fall of Guardia. Having Guardia fall is in interesting idea but it's handed poorly. It seems like Masato Kato really wanted Crono, Marle, and Lucca out of the way. The way that their fates are left hanging is kind of a middle finger to the fans.

[Mr Bekkler]

While I don't particularly like how Cross deals with itself being in the Chronoverse, I do appreciate that we got another game and the world was fleshed out that little bit more. I definitely don't hate it, but I hate on aspects of it sometimes.

Mostly, I enjoy the fact that so much is open for fans to talk about, and the fact that at least they tried to connect them in some ways, unlike the Final Fantasy or Dragon Quest series.

[Rocky]

However, part of the ending of Cross is a merging of timelines to create an "ideal" timeline.

I've always kind of wondered as to the origin of this belief.  To the best of my recollection, I couldn't recall very much from the game regarding what the timeline would be like, beyond the fact that the two dimensions would be merged back into one.  So I looked through the ending from the game's script.  This is the only relevant dialogue I could find:

It's alright.
Everything is alright now.

Time, which has been divided,
will be unified again now.

That's it.  It says absolutely nothing about the timeline being ideal.  Still, such a colossal merging leaves endless questions as to which version of each person will remain, or, under the idealistic theory, which traits of each version would remain.  So I'm fine with the idea that the best aspects from each dimension will stay - the so-called ideal timeline.  However, unless I'm missing something, even that much is fan speculation.  After telling us that time will be unified again, the game itself says nothing else - nothing regarding the nature of this unified timeline.

But even if the ideal timeline came about, the fact is that it would have no bearing on past events.  By which I mean - as much as it pains me to say it - the game certainly doesn't tell us that the resolution of the ending could in any way magically undo whatever awful fates Crono and company suffered.  If I'm forgetting something from the script, please do remind me.  All I could find that it tells us - soon after the above quote - is that Serge would lose his memory of the game's events.  It never says that the bad things of the past will spontaneously be changed.

I don't wish to put a damper on anyone's pleasant notions regarding all of this.  I just think that maybe the more pleasant fanfics in existence have - in the minds of some - leaked over into the facts of the actual game.  The only warm feeling CC gives us is the notion that somehow, at some point in the future, Serge and Schala/Kid have a happy future together.  Any info as to the rest of the merged world is left out.  And the past is never implied to be changed.  To quote from the show Lost, "What happened, happened."

The way that their fates are left hanging is kind of a middle finger to the fans.

I've uttered that exact sentiment regarding the CT characters oh so many times.  It is flat out true.

Isn't that just going to enrage the fanbase?

It's what I've tried to explain to many CC fans who don't get the gravity of that point.  There's no law stipulating that creators give the heroes of their stories a happy ending - true.  And yet over 90% of writers do.  "Why is that?"  I ask them.  Because if fans spend a long time growing to like and care about characters, they want them to have happy endings.  It's an extremely simple concept.  So when my absolute favorite video game characters end up falling into the 10% or less category, it is both unlikely and unpleasant to me.  But again, what happened happened.

Oh, and Grace - nice use of the picture.  Classic.