Wanted to share how I feel about Chrono Cross, and why.

[Mr Bekkler]

I believe that if the shouldas, couldas, and wouldas I mentioned, if implemented (that is to say, if some of the 3d models and in-game names were changed and nothing else, no extra dialogue, no extra story, no other changes at all) the game wouldn't necessarily be better, but you can bet your ass it would have been better received by hardcore CT fans (and I guarantee no CC fans would have minded if it was made that way from the start).

[Xenterex]

uh oh bekkler, those changes seem simple enough to actually be implemented on the next generation batch of re-re-re-re-releases.

[Manly Man]

Everybody loves the music.

I know a total of one person who listened to the soundtracks for both games and meh'd at them. Didn't say he didn't like them, but he just didn't get what all the fuss was about.

Far as I know he still liked the games themselves, though.

[Lennis]

Some of them are downright silly for no reason (NeoFio, Starky, Poshul, Mojo),
and some just seem out of place or out of time (seriously wtf is up with Nikki),
and some are just there as references or homages to CT characters who make less sense being there than the actual CT characters would:
Guile should have been Magus (or Magil, I don't care which, either way he should have had character and backstory),
Turnip should have just been Frog (and/or Glenn should have been CT's Glenn, but I'd still want CC's Glenn in the game, just maybe with a different name, like maybe...Cyrus?),
Miguel should have been Crono (and Leena's mom should have been recognizably Marle),
Leah should have been Ayla, Luccia should have been Lucca,
Kid seemed like they were trying to repeat the success of Marle^10 to me but should have been much more like Schala, all things considered
and Pierre should have been Tata(he could have come with CT's Glenn as an apprentice)

Your thinking mirrors my own almost 100% 

[Rocky]

no extra dialogue, no extra story, no other changes at all) the game wouldn't necessarily be better, but you can bet your ass it would have been better received by hardcore CT fans

Though I would prefer the changes, I'd have to say that with no other changes, I still wouldn't receive the game very well at all.  Those changes would be basically superficial to me.  I can be okay with new characters, and a new visual style.  It was the incredibly different feel and spirit of the game that turned me off to it.  So with those still there, within the same story...nah, not for me.

[Xenterex]

Have you played Final Fantasy 7 and/or Xenogears Rocky?  I bring those up cuz I've noticed a great deal of similarities between Cross, FF7 and Xenogears to the point where I essentially think all three bear the same story but have a perspective difference between the three in their story telling.

[Rocky]

I haven't played Xenogears.  I actually started FF7 with a friend of mine about...2 or 3 years ago.  Due to his life getting busier and the frustratingly disjointed translation job, we stopped playing in the middle of it.  (I later learned that there is a version with a far better translation, so I would play that one if I ever tried it again.)

I actually kind of liked the game, overall.  It's funny - the reason I even grew interest in and started it in the first place was that I watched the movie sequel (Advent Children, right?).  And though the movie was okay, what piqued my interest was the 20-minute or so summary of the game, using in-game footage.  I don't know, it just stuck with me.

From what I did play of the game, the aspects I liked the most were the ones it had more in common with CT than CC - mainly, a smaller intimate group of characters, and a story that was interesting yet also easy enough to grasp and follow.  What I wasn't crazy about was the fairly frequent bizarre and distracting sections of the game.  And as for the "spirit" of the game...dunno, somewhere between CT and CC - I guess closer to CC.

In Chrono Cross, I most enjoyed the Serge & Kid storyline - again, an intimate relationship between characters that have a lot of face time.  So whatever the game, those are the things that stick with me.

[skylark]

In Chrono Cross, I most enjoyed the Serge & Kid storyline - again, an intimate relationship between characters that have a lot of face time.  So whatever the game, those are the things that stick with me.

*deep breath*

Yeah... about that.

I didn't feel it, to be honest. Okay, as much as I like Serge and Kid, I felt it was kind of badly handled. I think the basis between the two of them is based on the Japanese myth of the Red String, where two souls destined to be together are attached by a spiritual red string. Kinda ties into the game's theme of fate, so normally I wouldn't mind.

The problem is that there's a difference between being led by the red string and being strangled by it, which I personally felt happened here for the following reasons. Many of which have probably been repeated countless times already.

1. SERGE NEVER TALKS. Self explanatory really. Yeah, they did a decent job in the whole 'actions speak louder than words' thing, and when you put the whole series of Kid flashbacks after saving Riddel, it's clear when you think on it that there's something there. I think the general consensus is that for a game like Chrono Cross, Serge should not have been a silent protagonist.

2. Then there's Leena to consider, which is a whole 'nother can of worms. I think it would have been better to have it be required to talk to Leena as Lynx before talking to Marge, then having Serge confront her and call her out after getting his body back. Make it clear that Serge no longer thinks of Leena as dating material.

3. Kid's initial attitude... Or better yet, the fact that it's possible to NEVER RECRUIT HER. Was it ever made clear that Kid remembers saving Serge before the start of the game? Or am I thinking out of my ass on that one? Anyway, the above two points make her almost seem like a stalker at some point. I never saw it when I first played way back in the day,  but on my recent play, especially when first meeting Harle, it was kinda painful. Though, I partially blame Honeywood for this and his overemphasis on caps and exclamation points.

(Was it Honeywood or Woolsey who did the dialog? I forget.)

Long story short, I like Serge and Kid as a pairing, but It could have been handled a lot better than it was.

[Lennis]

2. Then there's Leena to consider, which is a whole 'nother can of worms. I think it would have been better to have it be required to talk to Leena as Lynx before talking to Marge, then having Serge confront her and call her out after getting his body back. Make it clear that Serge no longer thinks of Leena as dating material.

I pretty much agree with everything else you've said, but on the subject of Leena, I don't think that was handled very well either.  From the way she was written, it's admittedly hard to see her as anything other than a selfish and shallow girl undeserving of Serge's friendship.  If Serge and Leena were truly friends, Serge should have been able to find a way to convince her that he really was Serge and not Lynx.  It's strange, because at the beginning of the game we get the impression that Leena is a thoughtful person.  After the Opassa Beach segment, she just becomes another generic party member/NPC with no real development or emotional attachment to what's going on around her.  Serge and Leena together forever?  It would have been nice if the game actually showed us the strength of that bond.  For that matter, we didn't get to see the real strength of Serge and Kid's relationship either.  There were so many great opportunities for character development in Chrono Cross, and they were all squandered because Kato and co. decided keeping Serge a mute was a good idea.

(sigh) I better stop now before I start punching my monitor.   

[utunnels]

 

It is not just Leena, actually. Many characters that has an another world counterpart have not-so-well developed dialogues.

I mean, the dialogues are not bad at all if you read them as little apothegms, but still weird out if you think about them. They seems a way too calm and acceptant when they see a he/she who looks identical. It is laughable that Leena, who will complain about Serge's little fault, feels OK when she sees Serge goes with another Leena.

[Mr Bekkler]

From the way she was written, it's admittedly hard to see her as anything other than a selfish and shallow girl undeserving of Serge's friendship.  If Serge and Leena were truly friends, Serge should have been able to find a way to convince her that he really was Serge and not Lynx.  It's strange, because at the beginning of the game we get the impression that Leena is a thoughtful person.  After the Opassa Beach segment, she just becomes another generic party member/NPC with no real development or emotional attachment to what's going on around her.  Serge and Leena together forever?  It would have been nice if the game actually showed us the strength of that bond.

There was already a way to do this in the narrative. The opening fetch quest is meaningless, but if they had brought it back and made you fetch scales again and give them to Leena to show that it's you (since nobody else was told about the quest) there could have been a nice call-back to something the character was shown how to do in the beginning and a nice character moment, not to mention you'd be able to recruit her again (and this combined with some other rethought recruits could make playing as Lynx more bearable by proxy).

[X4220]

I wouldn't call Komodo scales quest meaningless.IMO, in that kind of settlement, it is natural that boy must show with actions that he cares for girl.
But, overall, developers failed with Leena .IMO, they should depicted her as character who will stay with Serge no matter how...furry he becomes.Imagine her, desperately holding Serge while Lynx sends them both into Dimensional Vortex.
IMHO, for her, there is no middle position in game.Really important character or erased from game, I just don't see other way to handle Leena.
As for relationship between Serge and Kid, I am mostly satisfied, scenes involving them are really good.
But, at the same time, I have a strong feeling that in their relationship lots of potential was left unused and unexplored...

[skylark]

Well, a lot of that potential might have been hampered because development got rushed at the last minute.

Infodump, anyone?

[Mr Bekkler]

I wouldn't call Komodo scales quest meaningless.IMO, in that kind of settlement, it is natural that boy must show with actions that he cares for girl.

Yeah, it might be natural for boys to show their feelings to girls sometimes, but that could be achieved in an infinite number of ways that don't even have to involve the player doing anything. The whole point of the Komodo Scales is the developers needed a reason for Serge to be in that particular spot, it had nothing to do with showing that he cares for Leena. You can't even tell her no, it's a forced fetch quest literally before you're allowed to do anything else. Why do they make you do it if it never comes back later? That would be called a call-back, reference, or having circumstances come full-circle. These are plot devices that can make for excellent storytelling. As it is, it's more like the dev's completely forgot it even happened and as such, it's a total missed opportunity for the game and especially for the characters who are starved of...well... character.

But, overall, developers failed with Leena .IMO, they should depicted her as character who will stay with Serge no matter how...furry he becomes.Imagine her, desperately holding Serge while Lynx sends them both into Dimensional Vortex.
IMHO, for her, there is no middle position in game.Really important character or erased from game, I just don't see other way to handle Leena.
As for relationship between Serge and Kid, I am mostly satisfied, scenes involving them are really good.
But, at the same time, I have a strong feeling that in their relationship lots of potential was left unused and unexplored...

I actually disagree with you a lot here too. While I agree the developers failed with Leena, I think seeing her holding Serge while Lynx sends them to the DV would be some high-school level drama, and you can see that by turning on MTV. I never saw Leena as a romantic interest for Serge, rather more like an annoying sister who happens to live nearby, so he does what she tells him to (not asks, tells) because if he doesn't he has to hear about it all day.
If it weren't for fanart, I never would have picked up on Serge and Kid being love interests either! Talk about a bad match! He's curious, barely lucid, seems to mean well, is constantly confused, and frequently tortured, and she's alert, sarcastic, deadly, hot-tempered, and mean. Her big moments in the game are when you decided whether to let her come with you or not, whether you save her from being poisoned, and that one part where Lynx takes your body and stabs her in the stomach (leaving no injury whatsoever, she groans instead and wakes up somewhere else later). What am I missing? What is romantic at ALL about their story as presented in game? If it was about the two of them getting to know each other and slowly break down her walls and build up his confidence til they're perfect for each other, why give the player the option of leaving her behind at all? If she's supposed to be interested in him, why is she so mean to him all the time, and if they were "meant to be together" as the ending implies, why have both of them died like ten times in the plot?  I think someone with Lennis' skill could take these pieces and form a coherent whole story by using a lot of duct tape and extra words, but as it is presented in game, I have to say, their relationship (and just about the whole world for that matter) is portrayed as emotionless and sexless. Excluding Fargo.

Again, this comes back to the developers trying to recreate Marle but doing too much of the tough-and-tumble-tomboy-trapped-in-a-totally-hot-bod stuff is overkill and does make an interesting character not. I'm not saying Schala was a perfect character in CT, she was one-dimensional and a generic damsel-in-distress-from-magicville. But Kid is so far of an offshoot that the fact that they bothered calling her a clone seemed... unnecessary. I am of the opinion she needs a personality overhaul, and that stupid accent (as well as all the other stupid fake accents for the other characters) would have to GO.

That's my two cents. It's more like 17 cents, actually. Take it to coinstar.  

[Lennis]

I think someone with Lennis' skill could take these pieces and form a coherent whole story by using a lot of duct tape and extra words, but as it is presented in game, I have to say, their relationship (and just about the whole world for that matter) is portrayed as emotionless and sexless. Excluding Fargo.

I appreciate the compliment.     I hope I can prove myself worthy of it.

Again, this comes back to the developers trying to recreate Marle but doing too much of the tough-and-tumble-tomboy-trapped-in-a-totally-hot-bod stuff is overkill and does make an interesting character not. I'm not saying Schala was a perfect character in CT, she was one-dimensional and a generic damsel-in-distress-from-magicville. But Kid is so far of an offshoot that the fact that they bothered calling her a clone seemed... unnecessary. I am of the opinion she needs a personality overhaul, and that stupid accent (as well as all the other stupid fake accents for the other characters) would have to GO.

I don't have a problem with Kid's personality except that it wasn't allowed to grow.  I thought her accent was kind of endearing, actually.  On the subject of Schala, her character is due for an overhaul not unlike what I've done with Queen Leene.  I really don't like damsels in distress.