Marle Paradox, Simple Analysis

[NeroBz]

And what this dark zone that Marle leave and mentions? Would somewhere existing in the game serie?

[idioticidioms]

And what this dark zone that Marle leave and mentions? Would somewhere existing in the game serie?

Language barriers are a pain in the ass...

For all intents and purposes; Marle died. Well, not exactly 'died'. She ceased to exist entirely. The dark place she mentions is not a place you can reach in the game. It's not at all to be confused with death or what happens when you die. Think of it more as a limbo between worlds; like a Pocket Dimension, but not: The world we all exist in and carry on and the preternatural world that it's assumed we go to when we die. When Marle enters that place; she is neither alive or dead. She does not exist and at the same time must exist in that place to retain what little bit she does. Her consciousness is there; stored for when she does exist. It could probably be argued that where she went to is like a cold-storage for souls/consciousness; where they await the day that they will be given a chance to exist; though until they do exist, they have nothing to base what they experience in that state of non-existance and many won't remember it after being born and starting their existence. It could be argued; at that point; that Marle remembers it more because she existed and then entered that state of non-existence before reverting back to existing.

Did that make sense?

[Manly Man]

I honestly thought that it was simply a spot where The Entity had pulled her, since, apparently, going through Gates grants you Time Traveler's Immunity, so there would have been another hand in her disappearance. Things being interpreted by Crono and Lucca as they were, they would have thought it was the cease-to-exist thing, which would provide motivation for them to tinker with time further.

[idioticidioms]

I honestly thought that it was simply a spot where The Entity had pulled her, since, apparently, going through Gates grants you Time Traveler's Immunity, so there would have been another hand in her disappearance. Things being interpreted by Crono and Lucca as they were, they would have thought it was the cease-to-exist thing, which would provide motivation for them to tinker with time further.

That's also possible.

[EgyLynx]

but... that was only time at game where that happend?

[Manly Man]

Yeah. You never see anybody else actually disappear as Marle did. Yes, many of them change, but apart from that one instance, nobody simply disappears. My thought is that The Entity takes her to the Darkness Beyond Time as a sort of haven where she is essentially untouchable by anything, save beings like the Time Devourer, who did not exist at that time.

[Acacia Sgt]

I've always seen it as an incentive to encourage changing the time line for Crono and co. for the eventual ''Vanquish Lavos'' gambit.

Since later on when they see the Day of Lavos video, when Marle is encouraging them to take action she brings up the 600 AD events and pointing out they can change history. It makes me wonder how much impact it would've been lost if they had seen the video had they just been sent to the future immediately during the Telepod incident, or returned from 600 AD without having taken an active part in changing it's course of events.

[idioticidioms]

that's the thing; it's entirely up to perspective. If you believe it when people tell you something is impossible; you'll never find out if it truly is or not. If nobody ever tells you that something is impossible, you're more likely to accomplish it.

The illusion for them was thinking they had changed history when no change occurred whatsoever. There was only the illusion of change while events stayed the same. They had not yet picked up enough momentum in the time stream to be able to affect any actual change. That came later in the game. But the world; having chosen it's champions; decided it was in the best interests of everything to let them think they had so they would continue to completion.

[NeroBz]

And what this dark zone that Marle leave and mentions? Would somewhere existing in the game serie?

Language barriers are a pain in the ass...

Sorry, is the first time that I discuss in another language. LOL X)

I respect your argument but I'm not sure about the inertia temporal. Chrono and Lucca are only in Middle Ages due to pendant's incident and without it there isn't subsequent events. Insomuch, this happening requires Marle in Leene's Square or leastwise the pendant.

[idioticidioms]

And what this dark zone that Marle leave and mentions? Would somewhere existing in the game serie?

Language barriers are a pain in the ass...

Sorry, is the first time that I discuss in another language. LOL X)

I respect your argument but I'm not sure about the inertia temporal. Chrono and Lucca are only in Middle Ages due to pendant's incident and without it there isn't subsequent events. Insomuch, this happening requires Marle in Leene's Square or leastwise the pendant.

oh no; it's fine. I can actually understand you. I'm just not sure if everything I'm saying is transferring over.

Exactly; all three of them are only in the Middle Ages due to the pendant. Without Marle getting up on the Telepod and traveling through time; Leene would have eventually been saved. But, because she did; she caused the temporal dislocation that occurred when Yakra made up his mind to off Leene on the spot because she wasn't useful to him anymore. (Guardia had already found a replacement Leene.) It became their duty to save Leene because they wound up in that spot and if they had decided not to do so; they would have found themselves without Marle and without the backbone of their group and they would probably never have faced Lavos; though they most certainly would have made it back to their own time since Lucca had the gate key.

One could say that the planet; Gaia; planned everything to happen the way it did because it saw the potential in these individuals to defeat Lavos; and so Marle never actually died or ceased to exist in any sense of the word but merely had the illusion that she did so they would be more likely to see things through to the end. They changed the past and changed it back; they affected, in some small part, the future; because the future did change if even a little bit.

[EgyLynx]

So Planet where Crono is haw gaia and... ok.

Illusion... well what that Marle´s going to spieces?illusion?

[idioticidioms]

Well, it was a stretch of imagination on my part considering the planet being referred to as 'Gaia' was a common theme in video games about that time.

I don't think she went to pieces because that would indicate she exploded. There was an explosion of sorts; but an explosion of lights; which symbolizes energy; which symbolizes that energy was used in the process somehow; which tends to lead to the belief that some other factor was involved; more-than-likely the planet; whatever you want to call it; seeing as how there is always mention of another entity being the root of the gates and since gates existed before Lavos fell from the Heavens (read: space), we can assume that it was a defense mechanism of the planet in anticipation of the calamity. Lot's of similarities to Final Fantasy 7 at that point; but I digress.

The illusion was that Marle ceased to exist at all and it's a very important illusion to weave for crono and crew.

[Lennis]

...though they most certainly would have made it back to their own time since Lucca had the gate key.

And found their world completely changed, more than likely.  The elimination of Queen Leene from the timeline would have had a chain-reaction throughout history, not the least of which being Leene Square no longer being named after Leene.  It's an open question whether Crono and Lucca would even exist in the new future if they attempted to go back without repairing the past.  My view is that Crono and Lucca would have immediately disappeared from existence the moment they went back through the gate without rescuing Leene, since the only reason they still existed was because they were in a unique position to preserve history.  I suppose they might be protected by "time-travelers immunity" so long as they still had the capacity to return to the middle-ages and do what only they can do.  Temporal paradoxes are difficult to deal with, so I prefer the simpler approach of Crono and Lucca just disappearing if they choose to do nothing.

[utunnels]

So, what if Lucca didn't time travel? Would their era be changed nontheless?

My view is that Crono and Lucca would have immediately disappeared from existence the moment they went back through the gate without rescuing Leene, since the only reason they still existed was because they were in a unique position to preserve history.

That is fine, which means they (include Marle) have never come to exist. And history goes on normally as the new time line. Maybe the Entity will choose another hero if the author want to continue the story, hehe.

[NeroBz]

That is fine, which means they (include Marle) have never come to exist. And history goes on normally as the new time line. Maybe the Entity will choose another hero if the author want to continue the story, hehe.

I agree too. If they obtain defect in any point of story, others would have been chosen.

Idioticidioms, thanks, I understand you and everyone too.

Crono and Marle bump up each other is evidently the start point of original timeline's breaking. Weight up the inquiring scene that both living with one another seemingly, after beating Magus. Dream or not, is possibly linked with the original timeline, even if Marle were is distanced from castle. Or just only searching her pendant, used by Crono to go Middle Ages. Plain the entrance to the past is located in both timelines. But decisions to modify the future depends of Marle on party.