A Theory About Lavos

[Jackmania555]

Theories seem to suggest that Lavos has either naturally emerged on another planet or was created. I propose a new theory all together, that Lavos actually never originated from a planet, or fro anything for that matter. I propose he is a being that has always existed and can never not exist because it has a higher purpose. Lavos could very well be the counter measure for sentient life, where as life becomes sentient, Lavos comes down to the planet and absorbs the DNA into himself for a "record" of some sorts and to absorb their powers(similar to Braniac of DC Comics). He then keeps tabs on the planet's life forms to ensure the growth does not tip the balance of the Universe and as the become too powerful for even him, he eradicates them and sends his spawn which is just a copy of himself(That is backed up by asexual reproduction) to keep the tabs on another planet. I think that Lavos was the first primordial being of "him" and was originated for this purpose, to destroy earth to keep balance throughout the Universe. If you do not believe that there is another purpose, similar to forest fires, he destroys the life on the planet and the planet itself to allow the new to grow(Such as Galactus from Marvel). The reason that he never originated is he is a spectral being, or an "eternity being" meant to serve a specific, higher purpose in the Universe, so either he never was born and just always was, or a counter argument could be made that he was born with the Universe. What are your thoughts, does this seem logical or is it not a good theory.   

[Mr Bekkler]

It's not bad for speculation, but Lavos has a physical form and can be hurt, so that invalidates parts of the idea, like not having an origin, existing as a spectral being (or ghost/spirit/god/etc) and simultaneously existing and not existing. As presented in-game, Lavos seems to be more of a giant tick. Even the Dream Devourer has a physical form that is radically different from Lavos, which suggests to me (along with the presence of lavos spawn) that there's a normal animal-like life cycle. It's all speculation though, when it comes down to it. Not much evidence either way.

[Jackmania555]

It's not bad for speculation, but Lavos has a physical form and can be hurt, so that invalidates parts of the idea, like not having an origin, existing as a spectral being (or ghost/spirit/god/etc) and simultaneously existing and not existing. As presented in-game, Lavos seems to be more of a giant tick. Even the Dream Devourer has a physical form that is radically different from Lavos, which suggests to me (along with the presence of lavos spawn) that there's a normal animal-like life cycle. It's all speculation though, when it comes down to it. Not much evidence either way.

The physical form is a good point, but what if we aren't looking at this broadly enough, what if Lavos' physical form doesn't really mean anything, it could be an interpretation of how the people in the game perceive him. He does get hurt however if he is defeated or hurt, it gives him an option to get more power, so in a way he is defeated but he gains power, further helping him with the purposed theory that he has a higher purpose in the Universe.

[Mr Bekkler]

I look at it not as though he gains power from defeat, but rather as though he succeeds in gaining power in spite of defeat. It's a sign of all life to have a survival instinct, and Lavos is nothing if not persistent. If I recall correctly, it's in his nature to manipulate and absorb DNA, which leads me to think of it as sort of the ultimate adaptor. Like how a cockroach can apparently live through a nuclear explosion. That's just one person's extrapolations, though.

Let me point the conversation in a different direction, with a question. What led you to your theory? Any in-game elements or themes or real world beliefs or deductions on your part? How do you support your claim? I'm just playing devil's advocate to keep the conversation going, there's no wrong answer.

[Jackmania555]

I look at it not as though he gains power from defeat, but rather as though he succeeds in gaining power in spite of defeat. It's a sign of all life to have a survival instinct, and Lavos is nothing if not persistent. If I recall correctly, it's in his nature to manipulate and absorb DNA, which leads me to think of it as sort of the ultimate adaptor. Like how a cockroach can apparently live through a nuclear explosion. That's just one person's extrapolations, though.

Let me point the conversation in a different direction, with a question. What led you to your theory? Any in-game elements or themes or real world beliefs or deductions on your part? How do you support your claim? I'm just playing devil's advocate to keep the conversation going, there's no wrong answer.

What led me to my theory is that I just did another play through of CT and after playing a bunch of other games and reading a bunch of comics. I saw similar themes and this seemed like it could fit.

[Lennis]

Theories seem to suggest that Lavos has either naturally emerged on another planet or was created. I propose a new theory all together, that Lavos actually never originated from a planet, or fro anything for that matter. I propose he is a being that has always existed and can never not exist because it has a higher purpose. Lavos could very well be the counter measure for sentient life, where as life becomes sentient, Lavos comes down to the planet and absorbs the DNA into himself for a "record" of some sorts and to absorb their powers(similar to Braniac of DC Comics). He then keeps tabs on the planet's life forms to ensure the growth does not tip the balance of the Universe and as the become too powerful for even him, he eradicates them and sends his spawn which is just a copy of himself(That is backed up by asexual reproduction) to keep the tabs on another planet. I think that Lavos was the first primordial being of "him" and was originated for this purpose, to destroy earth to keep balance throughout the Universe. If you do not believe that there is another purpose, similar to forest fires, he destroys the life on the planet and the planet itself to allow the new to grow(Such as Galactus from Marvel). The reason that he never originated is he is a spectral being, or an "eternity being" meant to serve a specific, higher purpose in the Universe, so either he never was born and just always was, or a counter argument could be made that he was born with the Universe. What are your thoughts, does this seem logical or is it not a good theory.

What led me to my theory is that I just did another play through of CT and after playing a bunch of other games and reading a bunch of comics. I saw similar themes and this seemed like it could fit.

Indeed, I have seen similar themes in other stories, and that is one of the reasons I take a dim view of it.  Simply describing a certain entity as an indescribable evil or other unknowable force of nature is a shallow attempt to sound philosophical and grand - an easy way out to describe heady issues.  Honestly, I sometimes think the creators of Chrono fell into this same trap - diverging into mystical explanations when a more thoughtful approach would have been more true to the mythos.  (Such as linking the moons to the dragons, and that the red moon represented Harle as a counterbalance to the other dragons.  Pure fantasy, while the rest of the Chrono mythos relied more on themes from science-fiction.)  Lavos shouldn't be dismissed as merely an instrument of universal balance.  Chrono is a story about choices and their consequences.  Lavos itself should be the result of a choice poorly thought out, and the efforts to redress that mistake.  THAT is the essence of Chrono; making choices.

[utunnels]

  (Such as linking the moons to the dragons, and that the red moon represented Harle as a counterbalance to the other dragons.  Pure fantasy, while the rest of the Chrono mythos relied more on themes from science-fiction.) 

Well, things like magic, or element is also beyond explanation of normal science (Quantum mechanics? no no I just don't understand...). I see a large portion of chronocompendium analysis tries to theorize time travel principle. I'm not against that because that is also one of the fun factors. But personally I don't like hard science-fiction that much, especially for a game -- they are not writing books, they don't have much time, and they have to attract different kind of people. I think lots of people once complained about babbling in Chrono Cross, heh, perhaps they could just created a book in one of those Chornopolis computers. Some games try to perfect their theories along with their series, but many are poorly done, leaving holes here and there, but that is not to say they are making bad games.

an easy way out to describe heady issues

Yeah, but you can see all the unexplained mythos as part of the law of Chorno Universe, it doesn't always need to be compared to ours. As I said above, the authors sometimes need to be lazy, that is they expand the parts which are "important" to the game, and shrink the parts that are hard to explain and less important. CT can be a generic good versus evil fantasy story in some people's eyes and they can still enjoy it, but I don't think many people can interpret CC like that, and if they do they will probably hate the game for those kind of people don't like complicated stuff.

[Lavos]

The thing about Lavos is that nothing is given about his origins. The most common explanations are detailed in the OP, but any theory we come up with is pure conjecture.

 

Simply describing a certain entity as an indescribable evil or other unknowable force of nature is a shallow attempt to sound philosophical and grand - an easy way out to describe heady issues.

 

Seriously?

Lavos' origins are hardly "heady issues". Given that some of the most commonly accepted and probably the most logical origins are as simple as "it was born somewhere else" or "aliens made it", it's really stupid to think of the origins of Lavos as complex by definition.

[Schala Zeal]

... or possibly Lavos could have been a race of parasitical creatures that have been around since the big bang.

[skylark]

I have a theory of my own. Granted, there's no proof or evidence and I'm probably just pulling it out of my arse, but it's good fanfic bait. Plus, it's what I'm using for Sea of Dreams.

*ahem*

Lavos did not come from another planet. It has traveled through space, yes. But, to the surprise of all who would learn it, Lavos was created... on this planet.

Say a tribe of precursors dating back even farther than prehistoric times. Shit happens, either their creation goes out of control or they destroy themselves, and Lavos is left wandering the cosmos. Feeding. Evolving. Surviving.

Then, eons and eons later, come 65,000,000 BC...

Lavos wasn't invading from a far off world. It was coming home! For what purpose, none can say.

How's that for irony?

Puts a whole new perspective on the series as a whole, wouldn't it?

It's something to ponder, anyway.

[Mr Bekkler]

Not bad at all.

[Dyxo Xinoro]

I have a theory of my own. Granted, there's no proof or evidence and I'm probably just pulling it out of my arse, but it's good fanfic bait. Plus, it's what I'm using for Sea of Dreams.

*ahem*

Lavos did not come from another planet. It has traveled through space, yes. But, to the surprise of all who would learn it, Lavos was created... on this planet.

Say a tribe of precursors dating back even farther than prehistoric times. Shit happens, either their creation goes out of control or they destroy themselves, and Lavos is left wandering the cosmos. Feeding. Evolving. Surviving.

Then, eons and eons later, come 65,000,000 BC...

Lavos wasn't invading from a far off world. It was coming home! For what purpose, none can say.

How's that for irony?

Puts a whole new perspective on the series as a whole, wouldn't it?

It's something to ponder, anyway.

It would explain why Azala knew that Lavos was going to crash into the planet, with that "Fall, damn you" line she has. Or, to feed the fire more, maybe Lavos wasn't returning home randomly or of his own accord, but instead it was Azala who beckoned him back in the first place.

[Beach Bum]

I think Azala's speech was just based on her own wisdom. She and her people certainly seemed to be the more intelligent ones.

As for Lavos, I don't believe it was born on Earth. If it was, there's no reason to go into space, when you're on a planet ripe for the picking. I also don't believe Lavos just "came into existance" just like that. Even though they seem organic, I believe they are manufactured. By whom, I do not know. There was the one ending in Chrono Cross where two of Starky's people discussed whether or not to annihilate the planet, although part of me doesn't want to believe that they are the great masterminds behind the Lavos disaster.

[Dyxo Xinoro]

Maybe Starky's race has their planet destroyed by Lavos, and went from world-to-world tracking it's spawn in some sort of "benevolent" genocide? Considering that Cross retconned the Lavos events into happening again (if I remember the plot correctly) this would explain their desire to destroy the planet altogether.