Poll

Has humanity improved over time, or has it decayed? Or has it stayed the same?

Humanity is better now than it was then.
7 (63.6%)
Humanity is worse now than it was then.
1 (9.1%)
Humanity is just about the same as it always was.
3 (27.3%)

Total Members Voted: 11

Author Topic: The Vector of Humanity  (Read 1767 times)

Lord J Esq

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The Vector of Humanity
« on: December 07, 2009, 09:46:21 pm »
In another thread, somebody wrote:

Quote
As the centuries have passed, mankind has grown more ignorant and selfish.

Discuss. I'll chime in later...

FaustWolf

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Re: The Vector of Humanity
« Reply #1 on: December 07, 2009, 09:52:51 pm »
I think we've done a fantastic job of growing our capacity for ethical achievement, since I view the range of ethical possibilities at least partially as a function of technological growth. Actually using our wealth and technology to ethical ends, now that's a matter of culture. Could change overnight or it could take a million years...depends on how fast we're willing to change some ugly attitudes that have existed for aeons already.

If we needed an actual direction, I'd suggest: Second star to the right, and straight on till morning.
« Last Edit: December 07, 2009, 10:13:04 pm by FaustWolf »

Truthordeal

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Re: The Vector of Humanity
« Reply #2 on: December 07, 2009, 10:11:45 pm »
Not only do I think that humanity has progressed very well since we were introduced to the world, I think that humanity is progressing at a faster and stronger rate than anytime in history. The past 50 years by themselves are astonishing.

Lord J Esq

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Re: The Vector of Humanity
« Reply #3 on: December 08, 2009, 03:31:53 am »
A Measure of Character...
As it so happens, this is one of the questions that I use to measure a person's character. More specifically, this is an area of inquiry that I explore to ascertain a person's own passion and their comprehension of power—two characteristics which are important to me in understanding others. In addition to the question I posted in the poll, I ask people sometimes whether they think the world will be better or worse off in 100 years. They usually reply that it will be worse. I can probe at their rationale by asking specific questions. Almost everyone agrees that our technology will be better off in 100 years, but there seems to be widespread agreement that our technology is either irrelevant to the question of humanity's own wellbeing or, more commonly, is actively detrimental to the same. This is reflected in the question of how people think the Earth's environment will be in 100 years. Just about everybody thinks it will be in worse repair than it is today.

The Doomsayers
Materialism, technology, ignorance, the negative emotions (e.g., greed, vengefulness), overpopulation, and social isolation are what people most commonly cite to justify their views that humanity is getting worse. (Ironic, isn't it, how “overpopulation” and “social isolation” can fit together so nicely?) With all of the suffering and injustice in our increasingly dirty world, they ask how not could we be on the road to destruction. There is some variation on this theme depending on a person's political alignment. Liberals focus more on social injustice and environmental degradation. Conservatives focus more on the decline of traditional morality. Libertarians focus on the erosion of liberty and self-determination. All groups focus on the abuses of corporate and governmental power.

The Fatalists
Others say that humanity is the same as it always has been, and the only thing different today is that we have the means to devastate the entire land surface of the planet in as little as thirty minutes. Technology may be more advanced, but human nature, they reason, is the same as it was when our ancestors built the earliest tools of civilization. They resign themselves to the view that humanity will either destroy itself totally at some point, or else will habitually set itself back, age after age, upon growing too heavy to support itself. History repeats. We have no choice but to be what we are.

Behold, the Dreams of the Weak!
All of these negative attitudes make sense. They are endless in number, but they all originate from a few common sources, easily understood. But beneath these common sources is yet another layer, a single genesis that is at the true core of every negative attitude in the human equation. That center is powerlessness. Powerlessness, real or perceived, is the foundation of all negativity, for negativity is the rejection of or dissatisfaction with a gap between the ideal and the actual. That gap is measured in power—not watts, but the capacity for constructive change. All human negativity can be described in terms of powerlessness, in one shape or another, and it is these “shapes” which form the common sources. They include mortality, bitterness, busyness, despair, destitution, impatience, physical pain, jealousy, poverty, confusion, bereavement, wrath, stress, defeat, disgust, decay, fear, trauma, humiliation, corruption, fatigue, restlessness, ambivalence, and on, and on.

The human experience is an unending stream of stimulations, emotions, instincts, ideas, and decisions. We are very small creatures living for a brief time in a vast world. Few of us who ever lived have lived well and died peacefully, with satisfaction. We built a civilization to conquer nature, only to find indifference supplanted by antagonism.

But that's history. Today we have a different problem...a problem that lays bare some of the most difficult truths about what it means to be human. Today, in America, material need has been almost eliminated. If you're reading this, you probably live a life of comforts and complacency. You have a pretty good idea that you won't die of starvation in the next year, or be slaughtered or enslaved. You don't have to worry about what the temperature is outside, because you have warm clothes and a heater. Disease is down; you can go out in public without fearing sickness, and you can go to the doctor if you do get sick. Crime is down too: You're not likely to be assaulted or robbed.

Yet that's just the half of it: You're educated. You can comprehend problems in a way that your ancestors could not. You can fashion solutions. You can perceive what was one unperceivable, conceive what was once inconceivable. You have words and metaphors to express ideas that have baffled the generations before you. You can travel enormous distances in a few hours, in comfort. You can listen to almost any music you like, anywhere, on demand. You can eat just about anything you want, whenever you want. You can pursue friendships and relationships without fearing of crossing the war boundaries of family feuds or violating sexual taboos. You can hike in the wilderness, in comfort. You can attend the ballet or dazzle yourself at an art gallery. You can take a hot bath, or a dip in the public pool. You're safe. You're empowered. You have so many options you can't even count them all.

So do we all, those of us who live in developed countries and are not stricken by extreme misfortune. We live in an era that any other age of humanity, any one of them, would describe as Heaven, the place where gods dwell. We can fly above the mountains. We can repair failing organs. We can create whole virtual worlds for our mere amusement. We have domesticated or cultivated thousands of species. We manipulate the land for our benefit. We have towers that touch the clouds. We have flush toilets! Electricity! Radio, television, phones. We can organize in social groups on the Internet in a way that has never before been done in the whole tale of human endeavor. We elect our leaders freely, and live freely. Injustice is fought with the gavel or the pen, not the sword. Children are given an education. Females, minorities, and unbelievers are able to practice self-determination. We can dress ourselves in every color under the rainbow, and dance beneath black light. Artists can create. Athletes can sport. Hobbyists can recreate. The austere-minded, they can work hard and attend church and eat three square meals a day.

By this measure, most of us who are alive today should be totally and completely happy.

But many people are not happy with this life. Why? In the past they could blame the adversities of the natural world, or the cruelties of a primitive civilization. Today those are almost all gone. That leaves just two possibilities. One is that they could blame all the imperfections that I left out of my description of our modern civilization. The other is that they themselves are imperfect to the point of being unable to accept paradise.

Imagine, if the doors to paradise were freely open for everyone, but, once inside, you didn't feel as though it were paradise. Your own perception, your own worldview...incompatible with paradise. Imagine that. Imagine how frustrating, how dispiriting that would be.

This is where powerlessness comes in. In a land overflowing with opportunities, most people still have limited power even to live out their own lives according to their desires, let alone change the entire world. And their grasp of the idea of power is even more limited. They are born with a flock of dreams that die out as reality conquers their imaginations. Their willpower is broken. They become docile, either by flaming out or fading out. They form routines that become ruts. (I can put myself in that category!) Their minds close. The end draws nearer. All of those lost desires, do not return. And still the world marches on, bombarding them daily. And civilization grows ever more complex. There was once a time when it was possible for one person to possess virtually all human learning. No longer. There is no such thing as a “Doctorate of Everything.” Completeness, wholeness...they seem ever farther away. Most people in America today have less and less understanding of everything around them. Technology becomes more and more like magic...incomprehensible. Corporations grow vast and arcane...unassailable. Social injustices—those we haven't eliminated—baffle and boggle the mind in their intractability...unsolvable. The size and complexity of our civilization reminds many people of just how small and weak they are.

Most people simply do not know how to live. They have not mastered themselves, and they have no hope of mastering the world. Their dreams are a source of agony, not ecstasy. Adversity, oppression...once upon a time these bastions of woe provided a suitable enemy. In their absence today, the multitudes of dissatisfied people who fill the mountains and valleys of our nation have nothing left to strain against. So they learn to see, in a veritable paradise, a purgatory. They need enemies, so they create enemies, because they can do no better. These are the dreams of the weak.

Power
Power is not only a measure of ability, but a matter of perspective. Many philosophies and religions have their own way of saying this, because it is at once very obvious to those who see it, and almost ineffable to those who don't. Swords and money and fame, or books and wrenches and ore, or friends and communities and movements...these are some of the vessels of power. These grails surround us. Often they sit right in front of our noses. History is filled with people who made stupendous achievements starting from the humblest places. Even the smallest person can become very great, if they can learn how to interact with the world to achieve their desires.

But before that—before setting out on the glory road—a person has to know who they are, what they stand for, what they want, and what the future ought to look like. It isn't sufficient to stuff oneself with religious dogma or political propaganda. We have to reason it all out for ourselves. It isn't even enough to know all those whats. We also have to know how, and, where it is applicable, why. Every idea we take for ourselves, we must contemplate and understand. All our convictions, we must reconcile every one with the others. We must temper our preferences with logic, reason our convictions with evidence, and determine our principles by their consequences. Everything becomes about the outcome. In truth there is no difference between “means” and “ends”; at the highest level they are the same thing. No end exists independently of the means which led to it. When we voyage out into the world, to pursue our ambitions—to change whatever we want to change; to take in whatever we want to take in; to explore and expand and experience all the world, according to our desires—we are but tiny creatures in our magnificent little bodies, and ultimately our success or failure is measured by the perspective with which we undertake our adventures. One who does not know themselves cannot succeed and will not know satisfaction. One who does not understand the ideal, or the actual, will be overwhelmed when asked how to bridge the gap between them.

Great Evil
From a historical standpoint, the question of whether we are worse or better off has a right answer. We are so enormously better off today than we were historically that I suspect most folks would not believe it short of being flung into history to see for themselves. But it doesn't matter. The most perfect paradise in the cosmos is just another shithole if that's the kind of person you are.

My creative spark has always rebelled against the cynicism and pessimism I see all around me. I've had some outstanding conversations on this topic over the years, but the running theme is that most people feel humanity is either in decline, or never changes. And there's almost always a negative connotation attached to the claim that we never change, making the fatalists as bad as the doomsayers. It disturbs me sometimes, just how many pessimists and cynics there are, because those outlooks on life can be self-fulfilling. There are people alive today, right now, who would, if they had the power, press the button and nuke the Earth. Not because they're evil, but because they are that fucking ignorant, and, in their powerlessness, would pass such a doom upon the whole world. Thankfully, “the button” is hard to find, but there are smaller buttons all around us and easily accessible, and they are frequently pressed, and the power behind these buttons contributes greatly to the injustices and imperfections in our world. I see it in the futility of our political debate. I see it in the widespread contempt for those who are different. I see it when a person betrays their own principles out of fear or greed. I see it when our beaches are closed from clam-digging because of toxic bacterial blooms. I see it whenever someone can't bring themselves to speak above the level of a child, or contemplate problems beyond the contemptibly poor comprehension and smarm that passes for conventional wisdom.

What I'm getting at is that power can be misused, and often is...even by those who are the most powerless. No...especially by them. There's a laboratory in the UW plasma physics building that has a warning label on the door: “If you don't know what you're doing, don't do anything.” Life is like that. With objects of power all around us, and words of power afloat in the air at all times, this world is a dangerous place to be a mook. We all have a responsibility to grow our power, if only to understand just how much power we already have, so that we might be more judicious, more thoughtful, more considerate in our actions.

The Struggle
Humanity is no worse off now than in the past. Humanity is better. We have a superior language, and a wealth of history, and new opportunities. But the negativists have one thing right: The human genome is almost exactly the same as it was at the dawn of civilization. We have powerful minds, but we are still animals. We are not ethereal beings of light. We are animals who evolved from a world of physical brutality and mercilessness. We take with us into civilization all the compulsions of our genetics. From civilization we encounter all the ideas humanity has yet produced, both good and bad. Genes and histories alike, we pass on to our children.

Passion, and What Is Yet To Come
Humanity has come a long way from its prehistoric origins. In fits and starts, we have built a great civilization, and one that holds much promise for greatness yet to come. We can lift up the nations who live in darkness. We can lift up our neighbors among us who have been forgotten or injured. We can drive ourselves to new heights, explore new questions, create new wonders, and vastly improve our awareness and appreciation of all things. We can do that without killing the planet.

But we may yet all perish, tomorrow or perhaps the day after that. Those nuclear missiles are not a fantasy. Neither are the many other rising dangers of biology and chemistry. The Earth's environment is not infinitely stable. Our material quality of life depends upon finite resources. And there are so many failures and losers and scum and downtrodden who walk among us, who, together, could pull civilization itself into their dark dreams.

There are no guarantees. None whatsoever. The bottom line is that our way of life and indeed our entire existence is still precarious. That sword hangs over our heads, and will for a long time to come. We may fail as surely as we may succeed. Are we better or worse off now than then? Better. But the stakes are higher. We have farther to fall, and more ways to trip.

Here is how I want humanity to be remembered: We were a species with great potential. We did the best we could. Every individual lived wisely, and cultivated their passion.

If that's how we would live, then it won't matter what happens to us in the end. It could be that the deck has been stacked against us from the beginning, enough so that we were always doomed, and we just don't know it yet. Or it could be that we hold our fate in our hands. Either way, if we do our best, respect our world, and strive to better the human condition, for ourselves and everyone, and fashion ourselves into beings who are truly worthy of the paradise that is utopia—a place so named because the very premise of it was once preposterous!—then our tale will be a satisfying one.

Anyone who says humanity is in decline is telling you only about themselves.

ZeaLitY

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Re: The Vector of Humanity
« Reply #4 on: December 08, 2009, 04:44:53 am »
Yes. I hadn't put it into words, but I've come to experience the same kind of disappointment and almost offense at people who resign all of humanity to some fatalist doom. The game isn't even up! And illumination is not possible with that kind of attitude!

Quote
This is where powerlessness comes in. In a land overflowing with opportunities, most people still have limited power even to live out their own lives according to their desires, let alone change the entire world. And their grasp of the idea of power is even more limited. They are born with a flock of dreams that die out as reality conquers their imaginations. Their willpower is broken. They become docile, either by flaming out or fading out. They form routines that become ruts. (I can put myself in that category!) Their minds close. The end draws nearer. All of those lost desires, do not return. And still the world marches on, bombarding them daily. And civilization grows ever more complex.

There's a "poem" on one of the Bleach tankobon covers, on which some interesting poems frequently appear:

Quote
Everything in this world exists to wear you down.

But this is where the springtime of youth can flourish. The slow death of those desires? Our current ignorance? Our powerlessness, to some degree? We can control these things!! We can maintain and fight for our dreams! We can absolutely, even neurotically force ourselves into begrudging determination! And even if we reach abject depression or dejection over how grim the situation looks, how easier then it will become to simply throw that away and take the easier route of spontaneously feeling optimistic? Being in the springtime of youth is easier than being depressed! A thousand, thousand times easier!! No matter what the environment or our influences are, we, even if it's a last shout, can sculpt our inner frame of mind; we can choose to feel passion and stoke that fire. So what is the world against pure determination? One person can change very much, or very little. But two people? Three? What if many people suddenly develop an internal locus of control, girded by humanism, and beautifully expressed with an active interest in living life in every breath?

This is the springtime of youth! I don't care if I've chosen the hard route; my character, intellect, and heart will rise to meet the challenges that my burning dream is absolutely, hellishly set upon conquering! And I'll ultimately have an easier time of life, because I'll have lived a life of no regrets, with all my value and meaning readily at my command and appreciation! This is what it means to plant a solid rock foundation in this world. Once you throw down the gauntlet, care about things, emblazon unflinching, unassailable optimism upon your frighteningly lucid eyes, and start sprinting, you will truly define something of yourself and your dreams in the world! Real—truly real—desire is more properly called ambition, and true ambition only comes with this intelligent, meaningful, almost joking seriousness about your idealism and dreams. Free yourself to fall towards the gravity of your desires. Let your dream be a shining future and a glorious humanism, and set upon it!

Quote from: Douglas McArthur
There is no security on this earth; there is only opportunity.

Quote from: Henry Ford
I could use a hundred men who don't know there is such a word as impossible.

Quote from: Japanese Proverbs
Climbing a mountain, one should not give up when difficulties accumulate. Accumulating merit, one should not complain about fate.

The meaning of life is to strive. Without pursuit of a goal, what can one achieve, no matter what one might seem to be doing?

Nothing is impossible for those who have a strong will.

Quote from: George Patton
If bravery is a quality which knows not fear, I have never seen a brave man. All men are frightened. The more intelligent they are, the more they are frightened. The courageous man is the man who forces himself, in spite of his fear, to carry on.

Quote from: Charles DuBois
The important thing is this: To be able at any moment to sacrifice what we are for what we could become.

Quote from: Bruce Lee
There is no weapon more deadly than the will.

Want to explode with constant passion and achieve your dreams? Want to live a meaningful life and touch the stars? The secret is to...

Decide to be that way.

You hear a fatalist? You hear someone doom the world? You hear someone declare that humanity is fallen? "Hahahaha!" What kind of criticism can survive the human decision to improve; to shape itself and the world around it into something more beautiful, noble, and knowing? This is your decision to live a life of no regrets; to believe in yourself and your inner humanity! And it's easy to make! You can even personally organize your life to track your progress and goals. I keep a spreadsheet of Dreams, Ambitions, and Goals that allow me to see which goals fuel which ambitions, in turn fueling which dreams. Here's an example mock-up (I did keep in some of my ambitions, heh):



You can make one just as easily as I did, and decide to, as I did a few years ago, to live a life of no regrets; to never close my curiosity; "to strive; to seek; to find; and never to yield!" We're in the age of consumerism and burgeoning entertainment; the age in which getting fucking fired up about idealism requires a monumental effort, and consequently shines monumentally more! Think of the past—the athenaeums; the Royal Society; the moon landing—humanity used to be possessed with a great, vigorous spirit, now watered down by comfort and a lack of literary, scientific, and philosophical inquisitiveness. But that spirit is endemic to our nature, able to be unlocked with a single, simple decision. Decide to dream; to discover; to be in the springtime of youth and burn hotter than the sun! This is a mind aflame; this is history without footnotes! Voraciously satisfying every curiosity; seriously considering every possibility; deeply enjoying every experience—this illumination is our manifest destiny! Are you going to take a piece of the purpose and thrill?!



Make your determination and open, curious spirit an infinity multiplier in this equation of life! Strive to give 200% in your living for meaning without regrets! Don't stop at 100%; think of something better than that! Kick reason to the curb and do the impossible! Who's to say what your limits are, when you haven't even begun to fight hard enough to scrape up against them and break them? Who's to say what humanity's limits are, when we've made it this far and are speeding towards light? Aye, the only people who can claim to know what humanity's future is are us, because we're going to shape it with our own hands!! This is a dream breaking through the heavens; the dream of sentience, consciousness, will, emotion, and intelligence! This is humanity, baby! And where we're going, we don't need roads!!



SO GET FIRED UP YOU BASTARDS! THE FUTURE IS YOURS FOR THE BEAUTIFUL TAKING!  :kz

« Last Edit: December 08, 2009, 04:50:28 am by ZeaLitY »

ZombieBucky

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Re: The Vector of Humanity
« Reply #5 on: December 08, 2009, 09:11:54 pm »
i feel that humanity has stayed the same. the only thing thats different is our own view of it. we have the same emotions and feelings as we did thousands of years ago. but the 'normal' is different based on other influences that deny us our humanity.

FaustWolf

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Re: The Vector of Humanity
« Reply #6 on: December 09, 2009, 02:20:23 am »
SOUNDS LIKE IT'S TIME TO GET FIRED UP




AND READY TO GO



LET'S TAKE A LOOK AT THIS TRAIN WE ON.



WE GONNA -- SLICE UP RACISM



WE GONNA -- TAKE A HATCHET TO SEXISM



WE GONNA -- SMASH POVERTY



WE GONNA -- TOUCH THE STARS



WE GONNA -- TEAR UP SOME SHEEEEIT



OUR THUNDERBOLTS WILL PIERCE THE HEAVENS



¿YOU WANT A DIRECCIÓN? HERE'S YOUR DIRECCIÓN
« Last Edit: December 09, 2009, 02:50:22 am by FaustWolf »

Lord J Esq

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Re: The Vector of Humanity
« Reply #7 on: December 09, 2009, 02:57:16 am »
I appreciate the zeal, Faust, and if that's your way of showing it then so be it. But, if you have a choice, I'd really like this thread to be a conversational one rather than explosion of graphics. ZeaLitY can be excused; he's a minor force of nature. Most of the rest of us can get by without going nuclear.

Mr Bekkler

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Re: The Vector of Humanity
« Reply #8 on: December 09, 2009, 03:07:09 am »

ANIME

HAS NOTHING

TO DO

WITH THIS TOPIC
« Last Edit: December 09, 2009, 03:09:56 am by Mr Bekkler »

FaustWolf

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Re: The Vector of Humanity
« Reply #9 on: December 09, 2009, 03:16:08 am »
Er, well, I guess I was pictorially explaining my opinion that the solutions to all our problems lie in struggle of some kind, space exploration, giant robots, and lightning-hurling Pokemon. Well, definitely struggle at least.  Whether that takes the form of reconciling enemies segregated by traditional -isms, discovering a better production method or a new chemical, creating art with humanist themes, designing new modes of education...there's much work to be done. And it is up to each of us to identify which piece of that work we're going to shoulder.


Quote from: MrBekkler
ANIME
HAS NOTHING
TO DO
WITH THIS TOPIC
I feel it could have everything to do with it. From what I understand ZeaLitY watched an anime and it had this concept called the Springtime of Youth. When I was down-and-out on my luck a couple years ago, looking for a way back up, all momentum crunching to a screeching halt...I wandered into the Chrono Compendium and discovered this powerful idea. Now I'm rising back up and this time, I'm gonna kick some ass. Others here may have similar stories.

Did a Japanese illustrator just become a force multiplier to people halfway around the world? You betcha. That's the powah of art, and that's the powah of dreams. A single image, a single line of text, a single tune has the power to effect change in this world.
« Last Edit: December 09, 2009, 04:43:39 am by FaustWolf »

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Re: The Vector of Humanity
« Reply #10 on: December 09, 2009, 03:28:29 am »
Er, well, I guess I was pictorially explaining my opinion that the solutions to all our problems lie in struggle of some kind, space exploration, giant robots, and lightning-hurling Pokemon.
:lol: Every living being seeks excitement. If some don't, that is due to low spirits/sentience, which are one of the core basics of individualism.

After reading the entire topic, it all comes down to one answer.

It isn't that Humanity has gotten better or worse; it's still the same as it was then. But it is what Humanity has ACHIEVED since then that counts. Primitive stages of evolution are never pretty.

Regardless, have you heard of the themes of the stories of Tarak Mehta or even Kino's Journey? The world is vast and isn't beautiful, but therefore it is. Humanity is still too young to see the universe as whole, thus looking at different perspectives of life is what counts.

Mr Bekkler

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Re: The Vector of Humanity
« Reply #11 on: December 09, 2009, 03:30:34 am »
:lol: I just thought it was a clever way to restate what LordJ said, while still doing what he said not to do. All in good fun, Faust.


EDIT:
More on topic but still referencing a joke:
The show Community had a "debate team" episode recently and the debate was about whether man was good or evil.

The antagonist was easy to hate personality-wise and was in a motorized wheelchair, and was on the man-is-good side. the protagonist was able-bodied, and trying to debate that man was evil.

They went neck and neck til the end when the antagonist sped up his wheelchair on stage, then abrubtly hit the brakes, sending him catapulting through the air toward the protagonist. When the two made contact, the protagonist's arms instinctively went forward as he attempted not to fall over.

The antagonist shouted "He hates me, yet he caught me. Man is good!"

The audience cheered, it seemed he had won, but the protagonist's debate partner got an idea and kissed the protagonist, who dropped the other man.

The partner shouted "He was horny. So he dropped him. Man is evil!"

And they won instead.



I just thought it was really decent background material, well thought-out arguments in a television show. And I thought tv was just good for cartoons and explostions and cussing!
« Last Edit: December 09, 2009, 03:41:23 am by Mr Bekkler »

FaustWolf

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Re: The Vector of Humanity
« Reply #12 on: December 09, 2009, 03:36:01 am »
Yup, I figured as much  :lee:. I just couldn't pass up the opportunity to give another shout out to SoY, and what I feel is its ultimately central role in this topic -- either in helping people get more worked up and ready to kick ass, or...helping people get more worked up and ready to kick ass.

Radical_Dreamer

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Re: The Vector of Humanity
« Reply #13 on: December 09, 2009, 04:22:32 pm »
The show Community had a "debate team" episode recently and the debate was about whether man was good or evil.

The answer, by the way, is "No."

ZeaLitY

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Re: The Vector of Humanity
« Reply #14 on: December 09, 2009, 05:47:41 pm »
ANIME
HAS NOTHING
TO DO
WITH THIS TOPIC

Hah. Watch Tengen Toppa Gurren Lagann sometime.