Poll

Global warming is...

Real! =(
16 (76.2%)
Real, but totally not a problem. (Sorry Tuvalu.)
3 (14.3%)
A practical means of boosting our global fish stocks.
2 (9.5%)

Total Members Voted: 20

Voting closed: March 14, 2006, 03:53:10 pm

Author Topic: Sinking In The Truth, The Truth Sinks In -- A Global Warming  (Read 7830 times)

Lord J Esq

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Sinking In The Truth, The Truth Sinks In -- A Global Warming
« on: March 14, 2006, 03:53:10 pm »
ZeaLitY has an informal prohibition in place on political debates around here, on the grounds that they scare off new users. So I figured, why not post something political that is factually non-debatable? Aha! We have just such a thing in global warming, whose "bandwagon" has gotten a fair bit bigger now that NASA has climbed aboard. I present the following short essay for your information. Attention on deck!

~~~
The truth isn’t always as conveniently obvious as a rising flood up to our necks. But sometimes it is. Take global warming, for instance. The very existence of this phenomenon was long a fierce scientific question with potentially serious ramifications for human society, and consequently fomented a tireless political debate that has only in recent years begun to peter out—not because conservatives, when finally faced with overwhelming evidence, were prepared to admit they were wrong, but because when the water is up to your neck it’s hard to argue with your head up your ass.

The scientific questions surrounding global warming continue. But what isn’t a question anymore is that global warming itself does indeed exist. Vast empirical evidence, in the form of observations of every kind, has proven at least this question beyond a reasonable doubt: The Earth is warming up. And now that no less an institution than NASA is behind this statement, following two major studies that the agency describes as the most comprehensive ever, the “global warming is a myth” myth will probably never recover. Instead we should expect to see conservatives focus more and more in the coming years on the argument that, yes, global warming is real, but that it is due to natural factors rather than smokestacks and tailpipes, and therefore should not affect our vaunted “free markets.”

That question has yet to be decisively answered in scientific circles. And conservatives, who often despise science, are going to exploit the absence of scientific certainty to the utmost, implying that their position is correct because it has not been disproved, just as they did with the issue of the mere existence of global warming. And the general public, for whom science is a vaguely unsettling cult practiced by bespectacled professors in white lab coats, won’t know the difference—nor would they be likely to care even if they did.

Nevertheless, something has been overlooked in all of this. Conservatives, in admitting that global warming is real, have implicitly conceded that there is indeed a problem to address. To a certain extent, it doesn’t matter if the problem is caused by humans or not. It will affect us all the same. We will have to adapt to our changing climates. Such a premise is the very antithesis of institutional inaction. We have to change. Government policy and industry practice alike, we have to change. Our opportunity to reverse this warming, if such a chance ever existed within our means, is probably gone. So the liberals were right all along. And when the need for change “sinks” into the heads of the chief Neanderthals of our knuckle-dragging conservative brethren in Red America, the debate over action will finally become not “if,” but “how.” If only the truth were so conveniently obvious more often, as a rising flood.

Sentenal

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« Reply #1 on: March 14, 2006, 03:59:56 pm »
Wow, good job reminding me of why you make me frown :(

Here is some fact;  The Earth gets warmer and cooler naturally.  Thats what it does.

Lord J Esq

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« Reply #2 on: March 14, 2006, 04:04:47 pm »
Quote from: Sentenal
Here is some fact;  The Earth gets warmer and cooler naturally.  Thats what it does.

Yep, that's a fact. No arguments here. But be it natural or artificial, we're sinking! Kinda the point of my little essay...

Sentenal

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« Reply #3 on: March 14, 2006, 04:35:40 pm »
Quote from: Lord J esq
Quote from: Sentenal
Here is some fact;  The Earth gets warmer and cooler naturally.  Thats what it does.

Yep, that's a fact. No arguments here. But be it natural or artificial, we're sinking! Kinda the point of my little essay...

Yes, but there is a point under your point, with your "free market" comments.  Free markets="big business" who screws with planet=man made global warming=attacks on "big business"=attack on free markets.  Maybe I'm unfairly thinking of you as one of those crazy liberals on this debate, rather than one who has their head screw on right.

Ramsus

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« Reply #4 on: March 14, 2006, 04:46:12 pm »
Better join the Navy.

sssssz

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« Reply #5 on: March 14, 2006, 05:31:41 pm »
The only solution to global warming: Nuclear winter.

lozl, I'm funneh. :(

ZeaLitY

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« Reply #6 on: March 14, 2006, 06:38:41 pm »
I just don't like the contention caused as a result. OCR's Politics, Philosophy, and Religion forum is a good example of this. Nearly every regular at those forums thinks it is a huge failure, mainly because discussion is usually sidetracked by flaming or is inane in the first place (like the guy who came on trying to describe how to live life in accordance with grand unified field theory and quantum strings). I'm just avoidant of the pervasive factionism that comes with internet debate. Unless both parties in a forum agree to have a debate and maintain an open mind beforehand, there really is no way one can win an internet debate. In real life, a lost argument might mean the loss of a friendship; the two participating would find some kind of resolution, or one might see the logic of the other's argument. But on the internet, snide remarks and insults are the byproduct. This state of peace cannot be maintained forever. When Chrono Break debuts (and I've been over this; no, it is not guaranteed to come out, but really, it's only a matter of time), this forum will explode and the status quo of maturity will have to fight to survive. Maintaining our civil and close community may be extremely difficult at that point. But right now, I just don't want anyone to get angry. God forbid you take offense on the internet to the point that you are glued to the screen typing angrily and affected in your real life by emotion.

Magus22

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« Reply #7 on: March 14, 2006, 06:58:41 pm »
it really is a loss cause

ZeaL states nothing but fact

the best "everyone" can do . . .

cut the debate and the "i'll win!!" posts and to just help those who r in need of clarrification about anything

someone will help them to the best of their ability

i don't want to sound like some huge person here, i am a nooB here

but i've had my share on huge forums


to close . . . everyone needs to get along (it's the only way our species will survive)

Lord J Esq

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« Reply #8 on: March 14, 2006, 07:01:24 pm »
Quote from: ZeaLitY
But right now, I just don't want anyone to get angry. God forbid you take offense on the internet to the point that you are glued to the screen typing angrily and affected in your real life by emotion.

The forums you cite as degenerate flaming wrecks are so defined because of the demographics of their posters and lax moderator oversight. The unwashed masses will muck a place up; that's all there is to it. Reason is never in the majority on forums like this. But forced silence is no alternative to a well-overseen discourse on academics, politics, and philosophy. Oversight, Z! It's all about good community oversight. I encourage you to push your moderators harder. RD and Gray are good guys; they're here to help you.

Our planet is facing major climate change in this century. Its effects are already underway. Those who live in denial or ignorance are not going to be spared; neither are the rest of us. Yet there remains no serious reply in the entire topic. Really, Z, let me share a personal insight with you: Being king among fools is a dubious honor. Bringing intellectual weaklings to the Compendium is fine, but catering to their instability as regards the taboo on debate is not in keeping with your philosophy.

In any case, the point of this topic is not to debate but to inform. Hopefully some of the lurkers here take away two important pieces of information: One, global warming is quantifiably not a myth. NASA's recently completed studies are a thunderclap that people would ignore at their own peril. Two, a certain group of Elephant People were wrong, and continue to ignore the significant consequences of global warming not being a myth. And for once there can be no argument, because that sea level keeps going up, up, up!

Magus22

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« Reply #9 on: March 14, 2006, 07:07:05 pm »
i know where your coming from

your points on global warming are noted

but perhaps it's "fate"

there's nothing we could do to bring our planet into a stable thriving ecosystem as it once was lots and lots of years ago

there are some who don't even care about global warming

i for one, am just concentrating on my life and how I live it

it's a concern to me because it affects the very nature of the planet I live on

your point to inform is awesome and I believe everyone should kno about it and the repurcussions of it

GrayLensman

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« Reply #10 on: March 14, 2006, 09:55:25 pm »
Determining the effects of human activity on the earth's climate is problematic, because we don't have another planet to compare it to.  However, it is pure folly to assume that we don't have a significant impact on the atmosphere.  Humans have altered the composition of the atmosphere and effected the global climate for thousands of years through our agricultural practises.

Unfortunately, the damage has already been done, and although we can reduce the extent of the global warming, significant climate change is unavoidable.  Maybe we could come up with a way to counteract global warming by releasing millions of tons of aerosols into the atmosphere.

However, I happen to live in a region that stands to benefit from climate change, in the form of increased precipitation and milder temperatures.  My house also happens to be at an elevation of about 30m.

Can you say ocean-front property?

Keep those fossil fuels burning, baby!

Sentenal

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« Reply #11 on: March 14, 2006, 09:58:09 pm »
And a certain folk of Jackass people... Okay, fine, Donkey people (:)), would try and push their socialist agenda based on the fact the planet is warming up.  However, I fail to see proof that this will amount to anything major, in terms of our climate and enviroment.  And lets say this is major;  just what are we going to do about it?  Thats where I think most conservative opposition comes from, or at least where mine lies.

Magus22

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« Reply #12 on: March 14, 2006, 10:11:40 pm »
very true

our ozone is actually regenerating . . . closing the hole in which was once large many many many years ago

kind of a cool planet we live on huh :)

u got to think of the pros and cons of global warming as well before jumping to conclusions

i really don't think we will "sink"

ZeaLitY

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« Reply #13 on: March 14, 2006, 10:51:35 pm »
Well, nevermind then. I believe this forum does benefit from its unspoken rules and attitudes -- a high level of conduct, behavior, and Chrono obsession. GrayLensman, are you still working for...*something* composites on that coast town in Canada?

I can deal with global warming being a result of natural climate fluctuations (such as a little Ice Age, etc.), though if it is a human product, it'll be much harder to stomach. I look forward to the studies.

GrayLensman

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« Reply #14 on: March 14, 2006, 11:25:38 pm »
Quote from: ZeaLitY
GrayLensman, are you still working for...*something* composites on that coast town in Canada?


No, that work term ended after four months.  However, I do still live in Nova Scotia.  We had the warmest winter on record this year.